Death Penalty

[DJ...]

I know mistakes happen but how many people sitting on 'death row' are actually innocent? Odds are against it I think

But the fact remains that we will NEVER know and because there is no historical data either, it is impossible to statistically forecast or assume. This arguement is moot for this reason.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

This is exactly why I agree in principle, but not in practice in SA.

I agree with that. The point is that we have people calling for the death penalty to correct things in SA, but I'm not comfortable with the idea given the incompetence within the government.

I know mistakes happen but how many people sitting on 'death row' are actually innocent? Odds are against it I think

True, but it will only be acceptable to me if there are zero innocent people sitting on death row. With a court ordering the minister of justice to do her job, do you really trust that SA is even ready for the death penalty?

Even a 0.1% chance that someone on death row is innocent, means that one innocent person will be killed for every 1000 guilt people. While to some that may be acceptable, it's still somebody's family being broken up, a wife's husband, a kid's father. And what's worse is it's not a criminal taking his life, it's the state (people put in charge to protect us).

 

[Alan]

Injection is the worst. There's no 'occasion' to it. Just lie on a bed and they put a small needle in and away you go.

 

[DJ...]

Just another convenient translation to suit our purposes.

We show that killing is wrong by killing.

What a brilliant idea.

Please provide proof that the death penalty or the threat thereof reduces crime.

There is evidence statistically that points to it being both a deterrent and others claiming it increases murders. Common sense argues that it is a deterrent however common sense is hardly used in politics these days in any case.

Besides, capital punishment is not supported merely as a deterrent but also as a form of retribution.

 

[PostmanPot]

Injection is the worst. There's no 'occasion' to it. Just lie on a bed and they put a small needle in and away you go.

 

[BT6LW]

how about we institute games

We could sell the tv rights for billions -

Every person convicted of murder, rape, torture during burglaries... etc. gets grouped into bunches of say 20 at a time.

Then we secure Ellis Park, or maybe our new expensive stadiums, throw a couple of weapons into the stadium - and let them have it out with each other ....

Last person standing gets a pardon on death, and spends life in jail -

 

[DJ...]

True, but it will only be acceptable to me if there are zero innocent people sitting on death row.

How would you ever prove or disprove this? Again, a moot arguement because it is impossible to prove nor disprove. It requires a leap of faith in either the "yay" or "nay" column. Although in SA, one can safely assume (common sense again) that there are many innocent bodies in prisons, especially considering the number of criminals on the streets.

 

[Piepalook]

how about we institute games

We could sell the tv rights for billions -

Every person convicted of murder, rape, torture during burglaries... etc. gets grouped into bunches of say 20 at a time.

Then we secure Ellis Park, or maybe our new expensive stadiums, throw a couple of weapons into the stadium - and let them have it out with each other ....

Last person standing gets a pardon on death, and spends life in jail -

What a brilliant idea!
We should call it rollerball.
Back to Roman times!
We need decent entertainment.
What a reality show.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

How would you ever prove or disprove this? Again, a moot arguement

That's exactly my point. There's no way to conclusively prove that (yet), and therefore I'll never be for it, until we have the means necessary to provide absolute proof. Some day in the future maybe, but not right now.

 

[BT6LW]

I like the idea very much - but how can we market it

 

[Piepalook]

I like the idea very much - but how can we market it

I'll think of something.
I need to sleep on this.

 

[UnoPanelvan]

You might start caring if it was a loved one falsely accused and up on death row. Try some empathy...

No empathy for murderers and rapists from me. I am sorry. Where was his empathy when he did the deed. I I think or know someone is innocents well then that is different. We are so quick to be against the death penalty for real criminals but we allowed (and still do) many young kids die of aids and curable diseases while the government members siphon off billions for their own "needs". Yet we are so concerned about the human rights of criminal scum.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

You might start caring if it was a loved one falsely accused and up on death row. Try some empathy...

No empathy for murderers and rapists from me. I am sorry. Where was his empathy when he did the deed. I I think or know someone is innocents well then that is different. We are so quick to be against the death penalty for real criminals but we allowed (and still do) many young kids die of aids and curable diseases while the government members siphon off billions for their own "needs". Yet we are so concerned about the human rights of criminal scum.

Read the bolded part, and then answer.

 

[UnoPanelvan]

I agree with that. The point is that we have people calling for the death penalty to correct things in SA, but I'm not comfortable with the idea given the incompetence within the government.

True, but it will only be acceptable to me if there are zero innocent people sitting on death row. With a court ordering the minister of justice to do her job, do you really trust that SA is even ready for the death penalty?

Even a 0.1% chance that someone on death row is innocent, means that one innocent person will be killed for every 1000 guilt people. While to some that may be acceptable, it's still somebody's family being broken up, a wife's husband, a kid's father. And what's worse is it's not a criminal taking his life, it's the state (people put in charge to protect us).

Yeah, thats the chicken and egg situation. Bad! But to look from the other side if you just leave it just to be there is another thousand families broken up and the murderer is stall at large showing no fear of the law doing more harm.

 

[UnoPanelvan]

Read the bolded part, and then answer.

As said. Sorry for the one, show empathy and Honor his death as well as compensate the family. Look at it as in war one death save thousands more. Small feat but still better than the alternatives ie. high crime and murders.

 

[daveza]

http://www.ncadp.org/index.cfm?content=5

Capital punishment does not deter crime.


Scientific studies have consistently failed to demonstrate that executions deter people from committing crime anymore than long prison sentences. Moreover, states without the death penalty have much lower murder rates. The South accounts for 80% of U.S. executions and has the highest regional murder rate.


Race plays a role in determining who lives and who dies.

Since 1977, blacks and whites have been the victims of murders in almost equal numbers, yet 80% of the people executed in that period were convicted of murders involving white victims.


The death penalty is applied at random.

Politics, quality of legal counsel and the jurisdiction where a crime is committed are more often the determining factors in a death penalty case than the facts of the crime itself. The death penalty is a lethal lottery: of the 22,000 homicides committed every year approximately 150 people are sentenced to death.


The USA is keeping company with notorious human rights abusers.

The vast majority of countries in Western Europe, North America and South America — more than 128 nations worldwide — have abandoned capital punishment in law or in practice. Year after year only three countries lead the U.S. in executions – China, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Life Without Parole is a Sensible Alternative to the Death Penalty

Almost every state in the U.S. now has life in prison without parole. Unlike decades ago, a sentence of life without parole generally means exactly what it says – convicts locked away in prison until they die. Unlike the death penalty, a sentence of life in prison without parole allows mistakes to be corrected.

Just a few facts.


This however is one topic I can relax about - because it is never going to happen.

 

[daveza]

http://www.ncadp.org/index.cfm?content=45

Popular Misconceptions About the Death Penalty

The death penalty has been proven to deter crime.
As early as the mid-1700s, there were doubts about whether the death penalty acted as a deterrent to crime. When expert criminologists were polled on their views of existing deterrent studies, 84 percent of them concluded from the research that the death penalty did not act as a deterrent to murder. In fact, some studies have shown a “brutalization effect,” in that murders in some jurisdictions increased right after well-publicized executions. Additionally, a 1995 poll by Hart Research Associates found that the majority of police chiefs do not believe the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides - in fact, they ranked it as the least effective way to reduce crime. (The Death Penalty Information Center, “Understanding Capital Punishment: A Guide Through the Death Penalty Debate.”)


“I have inquired for most of my adult life about studies that might show that the death penalty is a deterrent. And I have not seen any research that would substantiate that point.”
– U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, January 21, 2000

It is very clear the death penalty is not a deterrent.

So bring it back for what - revenge ?

A quick death for a monster ?

 

[Rozier]

Guillotine
Thrown to sharks
Dropped down a mineshaft



Depending on the crime committed, and the circumstances, the victim or their family should get to choose, if they wish.

Personally, I suggest:
Murder (single) - lethal injection
Terrorism / traitor / corrupt politician: Bullet to the head - single shot, pistol.
Genocide / mass murder / serial killer - public hanging

How about locking the condemned party in a cell with a group of South African commedians? I know it seems rather cruel but it would be very effective and quite cheap I would imagine. Also very little blood letting involved.

 

[Pooky]

I find the gas chamber inhuman and disturbing,

Yes, but killing people in other ways is not disturbing at all.

 

[DJ...]

No empathy for murderers and rapists from me. I am sorry. Where was his empathy when he did the deed. I I think or know someone is innocents well then that is different. We are so quick to be against the death penalty for real criminals but we allowed (and still do) many young kids die of aids and curable diseases while the government members siphon off billions for their own "needs". Yet we are so concerned about the human rights of criminal scum.

Oh please stop trying to derail this thread with more anti-govt cr@p again! And I said "falsely-accused". Not convicted murderer - there is a difference.