Diablo III Paragon System

Wikkels88

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Oh come on, thats a load of crap. And you know it, and Blizzard knows it, and that is why they are patching it.

Yeah because 90% of blizzards customers are teenage little boys that bitch and complain till they have their way(I'm guessing so please don't flame me with links, but if you have a look at how most of them behave on the forums they can't be older than 16), unfortunately the customer is always right, seriously though for every 2 customers that complain the drop rates suck and the game is to hard, there's atleast one concerned gamer thats complaining the game is to easy, and that casual gamers are goingto ruin the game (I consider myself somewhere inbetween casual and serious haha)
 
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Archer

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Clearly all of the 1 million other players who are moaning about the drop rate are wrong and you guys are right. Hey, why dont you shoot Blizzard an email, tell them not to change the drop rate or add magic find to paragon levels, clearly its pointless because you guys can find the items you need.

Come on, there is a reason everybody is bitching about the game, no matter your personal experiences, and there is a reason Blizzard is overhauling the entire game so soon after its release. Clearly the player base was dropping at an alarming rate, and so was their income from the AH.

Cause there is no way that the people complaining are simply impatient, right? Right! A lot of people are bitching about drop rates, but to say that you can never complete the game with drops only is absolutely ridiculous and stupid. Maybe it takes too long for your liking, fine. But its not impossible, far from it. (edit: heck I'll even say that maybe the drop rates are too low for you and others to be having fun, but that still doesnt mean the AH is needed to finish the game)

PS - if you think paragon levels have to do with "bad" drop rates then you dont really know whats going on at all
 
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Wikkels88

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PS - if you think paragon levels have to do with "bad" drop rates then you dont really know whats going on at all

Yeah I was just about to add something similar to my previous post, as far as I could gather, paragon levels were added to give a some form of progrssion to the end game instead of it only being an item hunt
 

Brontosaurus

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Just to show that I'm not being a douche with my previous reply and that i actually read your post I'll give my opinion on each of your points.

1.) No one force you to use the AH, its there for YOUR convience, even if they remove the AH, go google "buy diablo 3 items" and you'll see that even without the AH, the chinese farmers/botters will not be troubled, it will actually suit them, because then blizzard doesn't take their 15% cut. As for the "trading platform" there's already a trading chat section, I've bought many bargains this way.

2.) The paragon skill system will improve droprates, because with each level gained your MF % goes up (did you even read the OP)

3.) Oh gawd this is the one complaint i can't understand from people, so you want the old skill system back where if you made ONE mistake you basically blew 100's of hours of effort down the drain?? Everyone ended up with cookie cutter builds anyway (the word "hammerdin" bring back any memories) A lot more diversity with the new skill system. Could you IMaGINE the outcry if we had the old skill system back in patch 1.01 when all Demon hunter realized that there fav skill Nether tenticals has been nerfed and they had to REROLL?????

4.) People actually spend 100's of hours on this game for the story???

5.) Why, lets say you created a barb, the majority of your stat points would've gone into strength and vitality, now the game does it for you, you still have all the freedom of deciding what stat points to look for on your gear.

6.) I guess this is the only point I agree on, Blizz should do a better job at banning bots. But unless its your goal to me the number 1 diablo 3 player in the world, this shoudn't bother you too much.

1. Drop rates were centred around the AH. Inferno wasn't a fun grind, it was just tedious without decently rolled gear. There's nothing more frustrating that rolling a DH only item with +200 int and +160 str. And seriously... What's with random stats on legendaries??!

The AH took the fun out of the game by making it a tedious work-like grindfest for the sellers, and took the fun out of the game for the "can't be bothered to play the game for what it's meant for" real money buyers. Sure there was an unofficial selling site for D2, but I don't condone that either.

I have an example for you. Let's play a game of monopoly, but I'll just use real money to buy all the hotels and houses etc and win immediately. Will be sooooo much fun y'know!

2. Yes it will... More badly-rolled garbage... See above.

3. Blew 100 hours of effort? No. I blew 100 hours of FUN. All D3 is, is effort. Blizzard took the fun out of the game by making it a chore to farm. And rerolling a character? Oh NO! Because playing the game from level 1 again isn't supposed to be fun right? I mean, it's not a game right? In D2 (and every other aRPG) there were many different ways of playing. Cookie cutter? D3 is more "cookie cutter" based than D2 ever was. I could have a godlike Hammerdin (noted), but then I could also have a godlike Zealadin. D3 forces you into 6 basic skills that you cannot change with cooldowns and Neph stacks - So instead of being an epic monster slayer, you end up running away like a hooker in a B-grade horror film while everything recharges. And then there was always the option of respeccing in 1.12+.

And the only reason there would have been such an outcry is because of the AH, where people spent ludicrous amounts of real money on pixels tied to that character which would be useless anywhere else, because they made another fundamental design flaw in having EVERYTHING attached to your weapon damage - See the David Brevik interview - He got it spot on.

4. No, but it really doesn't help having one of Blizzard's most likable NPCs murdered by the Tooth Fairy. D1 and D2 had a suspensive, horror like element to it. D3 is hot-stuff with boobs telling you how you'll NEVER close his(her?) hell rifts! It does make a difference.

5. Yeah and? Still a choice I got to make every time I leveled. D3 has taken the WoW approach - we'll do everything for you. Freedom of looking for stat points? Now you're just trolling. Unless of course you're referring to the AH, which makes your point 1 redundant.

6. You see... There wouldn't be so many Botters if people just played the game instead of bought it with the end game. Blizzad only have the AH to thank for this. Yeah, yeah, third party sites I know, but Blizzard discouraged you from using them in D2, in D3, they condone this pay-to-win farce.

7. Online only is a retarded idea. (Forgot this point in my previous post), especially with the ridiculous rubberbanding and crappy net-coding.

8. Item affixes are stupid (also forgot this one). 3% extra spirit! Oh wow! Where the hell is stuff like crushing blow (awesome), open wounds, chance to bleed, & chance to cast *insert awesome curse here*?

9. WHERE THE $%#^ IS CRUSHING BLOW!? IT WAS AWESOME!!

EDIT: Look, I guess I am staring at the game through D2-tinted glasses. But Blizz made D2 around a model of fun, and D3 around a model of pleasing their shareholders. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to maximise profits, but when it negatively affects your product and service (#$%^ that loser! Are you not thankful?!), then there's something wrong.
 
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Cloudster

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I still cant bring myself to go through that content again. Its like running 3 very long dungeons... one after another. Over and over and over again.

I'm in the same boat. I've seen all the cinematics, killed all the bosses .. why should I play the same game again when there are so many games out there to play.

I suppose this is part of the flaw in Blizzard's D3 design. They worked it like in the days of D2 when there weren't that many quality games out and people would grind D2 all day because there was nothing better to play.

Things certainly have changed and I hope this was a major wake up call for Blizzard.
 

Archer

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3. Blew 100 hours of effort? No. I blew 100 hours of FUN. All D3 is, is effort. Blizzard took the fun out of the game by making it a chore to farm. And rerolling a character? Oh NO! Because playing the game from level 1 again isn't supposed to be fun right? I mean, it's not a game right? In D2 (and every other aRPG) there were many different ways of playing. Cookie cutter? D3 is more "cookie cutter" based than D2 ever was. I could have a godlike Hammerdin (noted), but then I could also have a godlike Zealadin. D3 forces you into 6 basic skills that you cannot change with cooldowns and Neph stacks - So instead of being an epic monster slayer, you end up running away like a hooker in a B-grade horror film while everything recharges. And then there was always the option of respeccing in 1.12+.

Biggest load of fail reasoning in the universe
How long did it take you to respec a D2 char? Oh yes, the same time it took to level back to where you are.
D3 - 5 seconds, all done. Boohoo you lose NV stacks. Here is a hint..... wait until the end of your run. Oh wow look, you can change your skills now without effort. 6 skills only, please, what absolute codswallap. I understand there are aspects of the game that some people like, while others do not, but at least pretend to make sense while you bitch and moan

Epic. Nevermind that you imply it would take you 100 hours to suddenly realise you are not having fun :rolleyes: Comedic gold I tell ya
 

Wikkels88

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EDIT: Look, I guess I am staring at the game through D2-tinted glasses. .

Haha I can comment on each of your points again, but then we're both going to back and forth with TL;DR replies (I did read of all of what you just said, not reading another one like that again though:p) The part i quoted on your last post sums up more or less a reply I can give to each and everyone of your points:p
 

Brontosaurus

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Biggest load of fail reasoning in the universe
How long did it take you to respec a D2 char? Oh yes, the same time it took to level back to where you are.
D3 - 5 seconds, all done. Boohoo you lose NV stacks. Here is a hint..... wait until the end of your run. Oh wow look, you can change your skills now without effort. 6 skills only, please, what absolute codswallap. I understand there are aspects of the game that some people like, while others do not, but at least pretend to make sense while you bitch and moan

Epic. Nevermind that you imply it would take you 100 hours to suddenly realise you are not having fun :rolleyes: Comedic gold I tell ya

Whoosh!!!

That's the sound of my third point going straight over your head. The whole point is it shouldn't take 5 secs to respec. In D2 there was a sink. 1.12 you could do it, only once. 1.13 you had to farm the essences from the bosses.

What I was trying to say was that it was fun to replay the game from level 1. No one moaned when 1.10 was introduced with synergies and basically EVERYONE had to reroll. Why? Cause it was fun.

And I'll concede on the 6 skills only - up until inferno. You won't see a monk without serenity or a DH without caltrops (okay maybe you will, but they'll be in the large minority). And every item is LOH, res, + main stat only. Talk about loads of choices!

I'm not the only one who's "bitching and moaning" about these issues. Go to the forums and it's filled with hate threads harping on about the same issues I am as well.

100 hours to realise I wasn't having fun? Yeah. While it wasn't suddenly, it did progress to that point, hence why I haven't logged on in months. The first play through was fun.
 

Brontosaurus

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Haha I can comment on each of your points again, but then we're both going to back and forth with TL;DR replies (I did read of all of what you just said, not reading another one like that again though:p) The part i quoted on your last post sums up more or less a reply I can give to each and everyone of your points:p

That D3 is not D2. Yes I get it. It should have been much better, building on what made D2 awesome. Not the other way around.

EDIT: Look, I'm really not here to argue. I'm just pissed D3 failed for me and I'm voicing my outrage at it. I get some people like it, and I can understand why. I don't, and I told you why I don't. Whether you thing my reasoning behind it fails with logic and smacks of hypocrisy/contradictions/flaws... I couldn't care less. :)
 
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Wikkels88

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That D3 is not D2. Yes I get it. It should have been much better, building on what made D2 awesome. Not the other way around.

Give Diablo 3 some time, the D2 we all remember was LoD, D3 has got a lot of potential.

Diablo 3 vanilla >>>>>>>>> Diablo 2 vanilla

\Thread

Oh wait, this thread is about Paragon levels, carry on:)
 

Archer

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What I was trying to say was that it was fun to replay the game from level 1.
And what I'm saying is that it wasnt, not for me.

And I'll concede on the 6 skills only - up until inferno. You won't see a monk without serenity or a DH without caltrops (okay maybe you will, but they'll be in the large minority). And every item is LOH, res, + main stat only. Talk about loads of choices!
Flashback to D2 - every char went just enough stats to fit gear, then vit vit vit vit vit and more vit. So what is your point about freedom to assign stats?
You want to play a specific build? You put all points into that and its synergies, just like... everyone else running that build. So whats your point about "no choices" in D3 again? You didnt really have a choice with either of them in D2 either so... :confused:

I'm not the only one who's "bitching and moaning" about these issues. Go to the forums and it's filled with hate threads harping on about the same issues I am as well.
I see we have another "but I'm not alone therefore I'm right" person. Guess what, there are people who think the same way I do as well, so therefore I must be right surely? Gosh, what a stupid point to make, it once again only proves that different people are... wait for it... different... who could have guessed?

100 hours to realise I wasn't having fun? Yeah. While it wasn't suddenly, it did progress to that point, hence why I haven't logged on in months. The first play through was fun.
You mean, just like almost every other game? The horror, you got bored after x amount of time

Hilarious I tell you
 

Archer

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That D3 is not D2. Yes I get it. It should have been much better, building on what made D2 awesome. Not the other way around.

And what you fail to grasp, is that for some people D3 is better than D2.
 

PhreeMe

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Cause there is no way that the people complaining are simply impatient, right? Right!

This is my exact feeling on those that feel they HAVE to use the AH. Everything to do with droprates is not to do with how often you get a great item, but rather how quickly you expect to see those drops in succession. If you can't progress, play more of the previous difficulty. Archer, Worf and I must've farmed Act 1 Inferno for weeks. Archer moved up steadily with Worf and I struggling a little more. I still never felt the need to (and expressed my feeling of not wanting to) use the AH. Eventually better items did come and between the 3 of us, we traded up.

As things stand now, I have used the AH. But it's never been for uber items... mostly just an upgrade. As time has gone on, my AH items have been replaced with drops/trades.

In summation, trash-talking D3 cause you no longer enjoy it, or find it a bore/chore, ultimately means Diablo was never the game for you. I loved D2 and am loving D3... why? Because I knew what I'd be doing endgame (pre 1.0.4) thanks to D2. 1.0.4 Is just going to make it even juicier!!!!!!
 

Ancalagon

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And what you fail to grasp, is that for some people D3 is better than D2.

I think its you who fail to grasp the idea that some people might not like D3. Never mind that forums everywhere are full of people bitching about it, and Blizzard is releasing a MAJOR patch to address a lot of their concerns.

But according to you guys, D3 is perfect. Why then is Blizzard patching it?
 

Wikkels88

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.

But according to you guys, D3 is perfect. Why then is Blizzard patching it?

It was said earlier, paragon levels were added to give end game chars some form of progression, this was not necessary at launch time, because no one was end game yet.

Edit: And no one said it was perfect(No game ever will be) but its surely not the god awfull game you try and make it out to be, not for everyone atleast.
 

Brontosaurus

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And what I'm saying is that it wasnt, not for me.


Flashback to D2 - every char went just enough stats to fit gear, then vit vit vit vit vit and more vit. So what is your point about freedom to assign stats?
You want to play a specific build? You put all points into that and its synergies, just like... everyone else running that build. So whats your point about "no choices" in D3 again? You didnt really have a choice with either of them in D2 either so... :confused:

I see we have another "but I'm not alone therefore I'm right" person. Guess what, there are people who think the same way I do as well, so therefore I must be right surely? Gosh, what a stupid point to make, it once again only proves that different people are... wait for it... different... who could have guessed?


You mean, just like almost every other game? The horror, you got bored after x amount of time

Hilarious I tell you

Okay... I'll concede. You're right in every way. By your amazing debating skills and voice of reasoning I'll go back to playing D3 and having fun now... Oh wait... No... No I won't. :O

Yes every game gets boring eventually, but not so damn quickly. I get that I won't get nearly 100 hours of fun from 95% of other games but D3 I was expecting another couple of more years at least. I mean, afterall, it's Diablo.

I also never once said I was right cause a lot of people agree with me. There's no right or wrong about my opinion. Just that my sentiments are echoed by many.

Why not give us the option of choice when it comes to stats:

Option 1: Auto-assigned
Option 2: Manually assign

That's what I don't like... There is a lack of options.
 

Wikkels88

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In summation, trash-talking D3 cause you no longer enjoy it, or find it a bore/chore, ultimately means Diablo was never the game for you.

This right here^^^ there are so many games out there that I hate (and I mean really HATE) but I don't take the time and effort to bad mouth them, because to be quite honest I'd rather be reading up and discussing games I like.
 

Ancalagon

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It was said earlier, paragon levels were added to give end game chars some form of progression, this was not necessary at launch time, because no one was end game yet.

Edit: And no one said it was perfect(No game ever will be) but its surely not the god awfull game you try and make it out to be, not for everyone atleast.

Okay so why are people so full of hate for it on forums? Are all of them idiots?

This is RETARDED. Almost every online game receives major patches. Seriously, LOL.

Such a major patch making Inferno much easier so soon after launch? Dont you think thats suspicious?

Yeah, all games get patched, a lot of them get major patches. But few of them get major patches so soon after launch especially considering the lengthy beta.

Clearly the D3 defense force is here. Find me similar threads about how players of D2, when it was new, bitched as much, and I'll shut up. If you cant prove that D2 had the same frosty reception that D3 is having, then you have to admit its not going down nearly as well as it should.
 

LostGoat

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Have you even attempted the game without the AH before making those claims?
My Monk solo's act 2 inferno (with about 120 hour play time) and I have only used the AH for selling items (besides 1 item which lasted me for 1 or 2 acts in nightmare)
I also will not take any items from friends even if they drop in the same game as me so all my items are self found.
The game is therefore so far perfectly doable when playing with the choices I made.

I have done far less farming and theory crafting when compared to D2, indicating to me that if you where happy with the D2 difficulty there is no reason to complain about D3.

The fact is the AH provides choice for example my HC char I choose to use it to purchase gems (and probably items at a later stage).

D3 is not a competitive game where you compete against each other so if everyone else chooses to use the AH and advances quicker than you it should make absolutely no difference to your personal in game experience, only potentially to your ego., the AH provides choice and should therefore make the game appeal to more people,
 
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