Do you believe renewables are the solution?

Do you believe renewables are the solution?

  • Yes, we need to ditch the fossils

    Votes: 70 24.1%

  • No, fossil fuels are still the best option for SA

    Votes: 33 11.4%

  • The answer lies someplace in between

    Votes: 169 58.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 18 6.2%
  • Total voters
    290
Tomtomtom said:
The Kenhardt project is impressive but this is again an apples-oranges situation overstating the renewables.

AFAICT this plant is only offering 150 MW of actual dispatchable power. For obvious reasons I guess, but that's 50% of the headline figure.

And 1.14 GWh is great but it's still only 15 minutes of Medupi running at full power. (Which obviously never happens, but still...)
Click to expand...

Yep, we need base load solutions without a doubt, and batteries are not it. All I'm saying is that where we have or are considering PV and wind farms, couple up with BESS installation and we have an overall win.
 
Brian_G said:
Incremental curve. Demand has increased massively, the next few years should be quite different.
Click to expand...
All avenues of optimisation of self sustaining wind and solar have been exhausted, pun intended
What are you expecting in the future
 
"Renewables are not suitable! Just look where it is now!"

Not a good position to take -- people probably had the same problems with the first cars:
  • "Super inconvenient because you have to fill it up at a special place and it can't just eat grass".
  • "Cars don't reproduce. If you buy a couple of horses you can automagically get even more horses. You can't get that with cars".
  • "Cars needs roads -- I can go anywhere with my horse!"
  • "There is not enough special places to fill up my car."

The nice thing about technology is that it progresses. Battery prices and solar PV prices are coming down. We haven't even touched resources like off-shore wind. Lithium battery recycling is already taking off. CATL already has Sodium batteries in production. We all used to have 60W/100W bulbs in our houses -- now we are going with LED sipping 3W to 4W. Heat pumps are 4x more efficient than geysers in heating water.

But there are some problems -- people should ignore the "Nameplate capacity" that the media mentions on renewable plants (unless they add the capacity factor). We need to start pricing electricity correctly -- these flat-rate rates are insane and drives the wrong behaviour.
 
BBSA said:
In my view these technologies will improve over time.
Click to expand...

Indeed. And in my view if we have enough battery farms at solar and wind farms then we don't need a constant baseload but an adaptable one for peak times. Emission free combustion engines using hydrogen for example are currently being developed and could be an answer.
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
All avenues of optimisation of self sustaining wind and solar have been exhausted, pun intended
What are you expecting in the future
Click to expand...
No such thing. What's considered the ceiling today is merely another stepping stone tomorrow. We see that throughout technology, such as the way processors improved well beyond imagination.

Guaranteed?
Of course not, but history says it's likely.
 
Johand said:
The nice thing about technology is that it progresses. Battery prices and solar PV prices are coming down. We haven't even touched resources like off-shore wind. Lithium battery recycling is already taking off.
Click to expand...
Just saw an article a few weeks back on the UK's BBC's tech program called "Click", someone there has just invented a way to charge Lithium Ion in minutes!
There are some drawbacks of course, I think I recall that battery life is one but still quite a leap.
 
Johand said:
"Renewables are not suitable! Just look where it is now!"

Not a good position to take -- people probably had the same problems with the first cars:
  • "Super inconvenient because you have to fill it up at a special place and it can't just eat grass".
  • "Cars don't reproduce. If you buy a couple of horses you can automagically get even more horses. You can't get that with cars".
  • "Cars needs roads -- I can go anywhere with my horse!"
  • "There is not enough special places to fill up my car."

The nice thing about technology is that it progresses. Battery prices and solar PV prices are coming down. We haven't even touched resources like off-shore wind. Lithium battery recycling is already taking off. CATL already has Sodium batteries in production. We all used to have 60W/100W bulbs in our houses -- now we are going with LED sipping 3W to 4W. Heat pumps are 4x more efficient than geysers in heating water.

But there are some problems -- people should ignore the "Nameplate capacity" that the media mentions on renewable plants (unless they add the capacity factor). We need to start pricing electricity correctly -- these flat-rate rates are insane and drives the wrong behaviour.
Click to expand...

Good points, but just wanted to say that if someone wants a business idea, there are no lithium battery recycling plants or facilities in South Africa.

Cut me in 10%, you're welcome :p
 
Brian_G said:
No such thing. What's considered the ceiling today is merely another stepping stone tomorrow. We see that throughout technology, such as the way processors improved well beyond imagination.

Guaranteed?
Of course not, but history says it's likely.
Click to expand...
Technology has barriers and ceilings, you need to know the difference, holding thumbs on what is conceptually unattainable is hopeless
 
Spizz said:
Emission free combustion engines using hydrogen for example are currently being developed and could be an answer.
Click to expand...
You can't discuss Hydrogen on this forum without a swarm of know-it-alls launching a laughing attack, but yes, clearly a strong possible future if enough effort is put in.
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
Technology has barriers and ceilings, you need to know the difference, holding thumbs on what is conceptually unattainable is hopeless
Click to expand...

We already have combustion engines running on hydrogen and they will develop over time to be far more efficient and cheaper to run in the same way diesel became for cars.
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
Technology has barriers and ceilings, you need to know the difference, holding thumbs on what is conceptually unattainable is hopeless
Click to expand...
You really clutch at negative straws. Sorry to be rude, but I'm seeing why some won't debate with you seriously.

Show me how you can state as some sort of "fact" that it's unattainable.
 
Brian_G said:
The good news is those figures are from 2019 so already nearly 4 years ago, which means it's got that much better now.
And Jo'burg-size is good enough if we're looking at your "village model" way of splitting up the burden.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know, but don't forget even now they are still pulling in 17% of imports, so if we could do that, it would work.
 
Brian_G said:
You can't discuss Hydrogen on this forum without a swarm of know-it-alls launching a laughing attack, but yes, clearly a strong possible future if enough effort is put in.
Click to expand...

There are already consortium's exploring and developing hydrogen and ammonia combustion engines. It'll come.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X