Emigration to the USA

[HavocXphere]

Yeah, same here. There is obviously quite a bit of risk in that, as research can only take you so far before actually experiencing a place.

Lol research - for me that consisted of jamming destination name into Google images & deciding the coastline looks legit. And I Googled rent prices.

Next hop I'm def spending at least 48hr in the city before deciding

Maybe not so great for foreigners

Even that is flexible - much like the "random" searches at airports are a fluid concept so is this

 

[VikashLurker]

Thanks for the replies so far. I lurked over the weekend on my phone but I wanted to sit down to type out a proper reply.

We discussed the move again this weekend and the SO admits that this is the way forward. Its just a bitter pill to swallow right now. I think we both in agreement that the only factor that is bringing us down is how quick this will happen if we give the go ahead. Ideally a 2 year prep and plan would have helped us ease into this a bit better. But hey, you can't have everything right?

Regarding the location, yes I have to visit the place to get a "feel" for it, but all my investigations so far point to the fact that it has allot going for it. We had plenty of opportunities to move to the UK if we really wanted. I've spent quite a bit of time there over the years and I know for a fact this was never an option. I could see myself coming back after 2 years. I just did not enjoy the place, from the housing options to the weather.

Seems days off is another luxury we will have to give up in the US. Currently I get about 25 days worth of leave per year. According to sources there, I would be lucky to get even 5 days off. I have not confirmed with HR as yet as each company would have a different policy but yeah, leave is definitely not something you are entitled to. So question to those there, what do you do with the kids if they are off for mid term breaks? Fly the folks over for a baby sitting holiday?

 

[cguy]

Thanks for the replies so far. I lurked over the weekend on my phone but I wanted to sit down to type out a proper reply.

We discussed the move again this weekend and the SO admits that this is the way forward. Its just a bitter pill to swallow right now. I think we both in agreement that the only factor that is bringing us down is how quick this will happen if we give the go ahead. Ideally a 2 year prep and plan would have helped us ease into this a bit better. But hey, you can't have everything right?

Regarding the location, yes I have to visit the place to get a "feel" for it, but all my investigations so far point to the fact that it has allot going for it. We had plenty of opportunities to move to the UK if we really wanted. I've spent quite a bit of time there over the years and I know for a fact this was never an option. I could see myself coming back after 2 years. I just did not enjoy the place, from the housing options to the weather.

Seems days off is another luxury we will have to give up in the US. Currently I get about 25 days worth of leave per year. According to sources there, I would be lucky to get even 5 days off. I have not confirmed with HR as yet as each company would have a different policy but yeah, leave is definitely not something you are entitled to. So question to those there, what do you do with the kids if they are off for mid term breaks? Fly the folks over for a baby sitting holiday?

It depends on the company. There's no legal requirement for a comparable number of days, but 15-25 days per year is what I've seen in practice. Usually, more time at a company means more days off. I'm at 20 now, and will get 25 in a few years.

 

[Randy_The_Squirrel]

According to sources there, I would be lucky to get even 5 days off

Welcome to the USA

 

[VikashLurker]

It depends on the company. There's no legal requirement for a comparable number of days, but 15-25 days per year is what I've seen in practice. Usually, more time at a company means more days off. I'm at 20 now, and will get 25 in a few years.

Well the person we spoke to is in hospitality. So she did say it would vary between industries. For instance, her people do not get even get xmas off. That's their peak period. I suppose the same could be said for that industry in SA.



But she was clear about the fact that she had to work her way up to 15 days leave.

 

[cguy]

Well the person we spoke to is in hospitality. So she did say it would vary between industries. For instance, her people do not get even get xmas off. That's their peak period. I suppose the same could be said for that industry in SA.

But she was clear about the fact that she had to work her way up to 15 days leave.

The more "professional" the job is, the more likely it is to conform to international norms. People in IT, developers, scientists, engineers, etc. will likely start at 15-20 days. The rest run the range from rampant exploitation to fairly high union minimums. There are also fewer public holidays (about 3 fewer IIRC), too.

Oh, yes, nearly forgot - sick day policy is also something to pay attention to - some companies (my last one did this) would take sick days off your "days off" (not a separate pool), which sucked - get a flu/pneumonia or something for 3 weeks, and a cold for another week, and you can't take any vacation for that year. My current company has unlimited sick leave, which is far better (the other policy encourages sick employees to come to work sick and spread the contagion).

Also, just as a note, some companies allow you to do things like sell days off back to the company to make more money, or take unpaid leave to get more off time.

 

[VikashLurker]

The more "professional" the job is, the more likely it is to conform to international norms. People in IT, developers, scientists, engineers, etc. will likely start at 15-20 days. The rest run the range from rampant exploitation to fairly high union minimums. There are also fewer public holidays (about 3 fewer IIRC), too.

Oh, yes, nearly forgot - sick day policy is also something to pay attention to - some companies (my last one did this) would take sick days off your "days off" (not a separate pool), which sucked - get a flu/pneumonia or something for 3 weeks, and a cold for another week, and you can't take any vacation for that year. My current company has unlimited sick leave, which is far better (the other policy encourages sick employees to come to work sick and spread the contagion).

Also, just as a note, some companies allow you to do things like sell days off back to the company to make more money, or take unpaid leave to get more off time.

Noted. Thanks.

I am in IT.

 

[halfmoonforever]

Hesitation is always going to be on the cards, no matter how excited you are. It's almost like jumping out of an airplane. You're excited with some reservations up to the point of the jump. If you hesitate and start second guessing as you are supposed to jump, you never will.

like you said, you're comfortable. This is one of the biggest "humps" you need to get over. I think this is an exciting opportunity for you and your family. It might not be in your current comfort zone, but don't let that and the fear or unknown stop you. Not many get this opportunity, and as others pointed out, there are several approaches you can take to keep your options open.

Think of the keeeeds

 

[VikashLurker]

Hesitation is always going to be on the cards, no matter how excited you are. It's almost like jumping out of an airplane. You're excited with some reservations up to the point of the jump. If you hesitate and start second guessing as you are supposed to jump, you never will.

like you said, you're comfortable. This is one of the biggest "humps" you need to get over. I think this is an exciting opportunity for you and your family. It might not be in your current comfort zone, but don't let that and the fear or unknown stop you. Not many get this opportunity, and as others pointed out, there are several approaches you can take to keep your options open.

Think of the keeeeds

Your words of encouragement are appreciated and very much needed!

Thanks.

 

[Whatzmyname]

The grass is not greener in the US. Majority of my family emigrated there but would return to SA in a heartbeat however they have already lost their citizenship. Your retirement money wont stretch as far either...there is a reason why there are so many retired Americans living in Asia as they cant survive in US. I have been to the US many times and its a nice place to visit but I will never want to actually live there. The people just dont have the same sense of humour and tend to be oversensitive to everything. So if it will affect your relationship and happiness in the long run I would say no dont do it. If you feel you want to try it out for a few years then go for it but keep in mind overseas relocation is very expensive and emotionaly draining.

 

[ichigo]

Both my brothers one without a family and one with a family settled very well in their countries and made a lot of friends. My brother with a family went to New Zealand and made lots of friends at work and the child helped too. My brother who went to Israel went over with a friend or two so at least had someone who knew there which helped him a lot.

 

[VikashLurker]

The grass is not greener in the US. Majority of my family emigrated there but would return to SA in a heartbeat however they have already lost their citizenship. Your retirement money wont stretch as far either...there is a reason why there are so many retired Americans living in Asia as they cant survive in US. I have been to the US many times and its a nice place to visit but I will never want to actually live there. The people just dont have the same sense of humour and tend to be oversensitive to everything. So if it will affect your relationship and happiness in the long run I would say no dont do it. If you feel you want to try it out for a few years then go for it but keep in mind overseas relocation is very expensive and emotionaly draining.

Well this is worrying?

I really don't mind the people or the culture. To be honest, we are very easy going and I am pretty sure we can adapt.

The retirement issue has me a bit worried though. Which areas are your family based? Reasons for them wanting to come back after all this time?

 

[JayM]

The grass is not greener in the US. Majority of my family emigrated there but would return to SA in a heartbeat however they have already lost their citizenship.

How did they lose their citizenship? Also, even if you do, you never lose your right of residence.

 

[Dave]

How did they lose their citizenship? Also, even if you do, you never lose your right of residence.

There appears to be a small group of experts on the forum who majored in Bulls**t...

Here a link to prove your point:

http://www.sapeople.com/2014/07/10/what-do-if-lost-south-african-citizenship-785/

Even a government link:
http://southafricahouseuk.com/passports/psprt_citret.html

A person who has lost citizenship by virtue of failure to apply for the retention of RSA citizenship will have right to permanent residency in South Africa – if he or she was born in RSA. Such a person will be allowed to apply for the resumption or reinstatement of South African in South Africa. An application for resumption or reinstatement of RSA citizenship is approved on condition that such an applicant will live permanently in RSA once his or her application has been approved.

 

[Oopsie]

How did they lose their citizenship? Also, even if you do, you never lose your right of residence.

You cannot loose your citizenship even if you Formally Emigrate via SARS and SARB. My kids emigrated to the UK 11 years ago and have just renewed their SA passports.
Another thing OP, if you have any assets or pension that you leave behind, you would need to Formally Emigrate and this will allow you to transfer the funds without a problem. If you do not do this it will be a huge and costly shlep to hire an emigration agent to do it for you.

 

[cguy]

Well this is worrying?

I really don't mind the people or the culture. To be honest, we are very easy going and I am pretty sure we can adapt.

The retirement issue has me a bit worried though. Which areas are your family based? Reasons for them wanting to come back after all this time?

I've been in the US since the early 2000's and have yet to meet anyone who left to retire in Asia (or any other country). While I am sure that for some the strength of the dollar makes it attractive (South America too), it is hardly prolific.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/rundown/growing-number-americans-retiring-outside-u-s?client=safari

Apparently the actual number is around 400k (approx. 1% of the retired population), and that includes Canada, Europe, Australia, etc., as well as people who decide to retire early, people who are originally from the countries they choose to retire too, and people who just want to retire somewhere different (rather than out of financial need).

My feeling, being here for a while and having friends from a wide range of socio-economic backgrounds, is that the US is pretty easy to retire in. There are many great areas that are inexpensive and very pleasant to live in, that makes this true for most. Obviously, you need a significant amount of money for some areas too.

 

[halfmoonforever]

If retirement is an issue for you, just remember, South Africa will still be around to retire to if you so choose. I'm sure by that time the Rand/Dollar will give you a nice little nest egg to retire to. Not like you're going to work here, and as an American, you should be able to easily push yourself back into this country.

 

[VikashLurker]

**UPDATE**

So as I mentioned in my previous posts, part of the process would be a trip over to visit the US to see if it something that I would like. Well I just got back from a 3 week trip and I thought I would provide a bit of feedback for those who have been kind enough to contribute to this thread, and musings for those who may find it interesting.

With it being my first trip to the US, I really did not know what to expect. There is stuff you see in the movies, on the news and read up on the net. But nothing really prepares you for being there in person. I mentally prepared myself for being singled out at immigration as my trip was literally a week after trump went on the rampage to shut down the borders. So I had no idea what I was going to be in for. But I said I would just take it in stride and see how it goes.

Well, I was pleasantly surprised from the time I landed, to the time I left to come back home. At no point in time did I ever feel uncomfortable. Immigration officials were stern but not rude. The people of NC were also very friendly and welcoming. A 2 minute question about which chocolate is good, turns out to a 30 minute conversation about Ernie Els and biltong.

The area that I visited was VERY diverse. After spending 2 weeks there I got the Mrs out to see if she felt the same way. We did a tour of an element school and they boasted that they had something like 35 different nationalities and embraced it.

So bottom line is the place is good, the people as well, and I am super keen to move over. The Mrs agrees this is the right thing to do for the kids, however is still very skeptical about leaving the family behind and her job security. So that is going to be my challenge going forward. A path that I plan on pursuing with caution. This cannot not be a one sided decision.

Anyways onto a few of the things that I noticed:
The food is not as great for what you pay. They seem to do fast food really well. But as soon as you try to take it up a notch, like for opting for a sit down meal. The food is bland and just edible. I knew something was wrong when I ordered a steak and the waiter brought sauces to the table? I was like WTF is this for? I shouldn’t have to add sauce to my meal, that is the chef’s job. LOL. Well I am putting it down to just not knowing the local scene well enough to know where to eat what. Oh yeah and their wine was not great either. For the price? Not a chance. I’ve heard however that the Californian selections are a tad better, but I did not get a chance to sample that.
We really got it good here.

Oh yeah and they really quick with your food. At first I was surprised, but then it got annoying. I just got the feeling that we were treated like cattle. Eat, get done and F-Off. Imagine sitting down for a business meeting and being constantly bugged by the waiter. You ready to order?, now ?, did you look at the menu? Can I take your order? I finally lost it with the dude, and just said I will TELL you when we are ready! I had the similar experience at other places but it didn’t bug me as I was not really looking to spend time there anyway.

Next up was the cars. There is such a wide variety, there was not a day that didn’t go by that I didn’t see something new/different. And all were petrol and all were minimum 3.0L V6. Even my rental was a V6 Murano. Which is great, until you see the speed limits, the top highway speed is 70 which is around 110. And mostly everyone actually obey the law. So even if someone overtakes you, the most they will be doing would be 130. So I really don’t get why the need for big engine vehicles? Literally they could just all drive 1.6 to 2.0L cars and they wouldn’t even know the diff.

All in all it was a great trip out, and I was truly honoured to have had the opportunity to visit the States.

 

[RazedInBlack]

Which part of the US were you in?

 

[Ancalagon]

Thanks for the update VikashLurker.

I've heard similar things about the food there - you get a lot of food for your money, but it isn't great.