Moederloos
Honorary Master
Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.
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Question of the Day: How do you normally pay for purchases in stores?
ESKOM Confirms Price Increase
- Thread starter Skeptik
- Start date
Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.
marine1
Honorary Master
Rofl
sand_man
Honorary Master
Tell you what the ANC might not do as well in 2009 as in 2004...
nocilah
Banned
LOL - now you change the argument to suit.... I can officially say
pwned
actually, inflation has EVERYTHING to do with the argument however i can understand your misguided interpretation.
eskom's past price increase have been WELL BELOW the inflation rate. IN fact our country is one of the cheapest electrical providers in the world. Inflation last year was 5,4%.
14% price increase is NOTHING to cry about when you look at the past price increases, next to our inflation rate next to what other countries pay for the same service.
so i say again. you guys have been spoilt and are now crying like little brats. and i am not talking about load shedding here, but the exagerated reaction to this price increase on this forum.
when the price increase is 100% (which i am certain will be a reality this time next year) i will gladly join the ranks of moaners, but until now threads like this need some grounding and not this complete spinning out of control moaning and most of the time the complete and utter crap spewed inbtween.
Like certain individuals firing a domestic servant in the space of five minutes.
rich. real rich.
nocilah
Banned
because i dont cry like a little girl at a price increase of 14%?
because i choose to bring forward the fact that a domestic servant is something that south africans take for granted?
go move to england and see how many middle class people utililse a domestic servant.
i dont need someone complainng about a 14% price increase yet is too damn lazy to wash their own clothes and pays someone else to do it.
nocilah
Banned
actually, inflation has EVERYTHING to do with the argument however i can understand your misguided interpretation.
eskom's past price increase have been WELL BELOW the inflation rate. IN fact our country is one of the cheapest electrical providers in the world. Inflation last year was 5,4%.
14% price increase is NOTHING to cry about when you look at the past price increases, next to our inflation rate next to what other countries pay for the same service.
so i say again. you guys have been spoilt and are now crying like little brats. and i am not talking about load shedding here, but the exagerated reaction to this price increase on this forum.
when the price increase is 100% (which i am certain will be a reality this time next year) i will gladly join the ranks of moaners, but until now threads like this need some grounding and not this complete spinning out of control moaning and most of the time the complete and utter crap spewed inbtween.
Like certain individuals firing a domestic servant in the space of five minutes.
rich. real rich.
Yes, Eskom is the cheapest electricity in the world... but on a SCALE OF ECONOMIES for SA, Eskom is no-where NEAR cheap! - but you STILL dont understand it.... must I break it in to McDonalds terms (and limit the number to 3) for you?
Ask Telkom about that 'Scale of Economy' thing, they have perfected it.
for a Salary of R10 000 per month (not a good salary) and Electricity of R1000 (1200kwh or there about)
1/10 of Salary is used in Electricity..
UK has power priced at 7p/KWH (more than double that of SA) with a salary if £1500 (which is not a good salary....) £100 a month on Electricity. = 1/15th!
Now compare what the people can afford... and screw this 'Internationally Cheaper' crap... its WHAT THE LOCAL ECONOMY can afford.
sorry.. I used big numbers..
heh - i'm not the one complaining about the price hike.
Lets hope everyone wakes up and fires their domestic workers, it's not like they need the job right?
Yes, Eskom is the cheapest electricity in the world... but on a SCALE OF ECONOMIES for SA, Eskom is no-where NEAR cheap! - but you STILL dont understand it.... must I break it in to McDonalds terms (and limit the number to 3) for you?
Ask Telkom about that 'Scale of Economy' thing, they have perfected it.
for a Salary of R10 000 per month (not a good salary) and Electricity of R1000 (1200kwh or there about)
1/10 of Salary is used in Electricity..
UK has power priced at 7p/KWH (more than double that of SA) with a salary if £1500 (which is not a good salary....) £100 a month on Electricity. = 1/15th!
Now compare what the people can afford... and screw this 'Internationally Cheaper' crap... its WHAT THE LOCAL ECONOMY can afford.
sorry.. I used big numbers..
He can't argue that point, but he will... because he wouldn't understand it
nocilah
Banned
yes the pound will go further then the rand, and if you know about ecnomies you would not compare first world to third world.
but i can tell you i pay less for my house then a comparitive house in England. And by comparitive i mean the same amount of rooms , bathrooms, size of garden oh and ofcourse garage space.
England just beats us with 24/7 electricity and WAY less crime... er and a betta goverment.
The 14% hike will not destroy the economy, loadshedding will.
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nocilah
Banned
i see you have missed the point entirely - again.
How much interest does one pay for a mortage in the UK? If this argument gets you into another corner what are we gonna compare our electricity too now, the price of a tractor in Germany?
I haven't, you're the one behind on this. You say don't complain about the increase when you can afford to have a domestic. I say not everyone can and you can expect that some will be without a job. The sarcastic jab about them not needing the work was in response to you jumping with glee about the measly R50 you will have to cough up. A small business who's bills run in the thousands of extra will have to cut their expenses.
Is this sinking in?
nocilah
Banned
i apologise to all of you guys if i slated you without understanding your financial situation. i was being a d1ck. in times like these we should be sharing ways in which to curb our consumption of electricity regardless of the level of impact it has on our wallets.
i know i am not the only one who does not want to leave south africa and i guess its the optimism in me who is seeing this 14% increase as a good thing and the only thing eskom can do at this point in time.
once again i apologise to those i offended with stupid remarks. i do like to carry hope for the sake of everyone in this country who is hardowrking and only wants to live a happy life.
i know i am not the only one who does not want to leave south africa and i guess its the optimism in me who is seeing this 14% increase as a good thing and the only thing eskom can do at this point in time.
once again i apologise to those i offended with stupid remarks. i do like to carry hope for the sake of everyone in this country who is hardowrking and only wants to live a happy life.
Wow you are spot on. I can't stop laughing, but it's so true.
Back to the facts, 14% increase in electricity. I don't think there is any business out there that doesn't use electricity. Now combine all the business' extra 14% that they must spend. Wow suddenly 14% converts in billions of rands. Not to mention the millions lost everyday by business due to the fact that the electricity is just not there. I don't see the South African economy coming out of this one. Oh and I will bet my house that 14% will not be the only increase this year.
Think about it, a truck carrying food, gets stuck in traffic due to load shedding and no operational traffic lights. It takes an extra 2 hours to arrive at it's destination. Some food has gone off, the food is already late so potential business is lost. Bam you already have a food price increase.
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Moederloos
Honorary Master
Halicon has apologised - and I will accept that in good faith.
I do however, think the point needs to be discussed some more.
Every year for as long as I can remember, I have paid more for electricity - be this a City
Power increase, and whether or not Eskom claimed back from the municipalities is not my concern. I paid more. To say Eskom did not increase their costs is a non-issue.
I really want to concentrate on the 14% - especially in relation to inflation and power cuts.
14% is around twice the current inflation rate. Electricity is a production input expense. And one which cannot be avoided. You may argue that one can generate one's own electricity - but this is at a higher cost than Eskom, by many times.
So, what happens now with this input cost? Do companies absorb it, or do they pass it on to consumers?
Ultimately, it gets passed on - when it gets passed on is really based on many variables - such as the level of competition in their industry. As we have seen with bread prices, their is major collusion - I reckon electricity price increases will show in bread prices immediately. As well as in milk. And meat. And then we have the price increases due to additional business expenses - like production loss and generator purchases.
In addition to the price increases due to electricity, we need to factor in increases based on shortages that will develop from power cuts - we heard on this forum that SAB has dumped megalitres of beer - and while I fully appreciate that beer is not a basic good, I use it simply to make a point. Economics 101 - supply and demand. The lower the supply, the higher the price.
So, what do we have - we have, on the one hand, ever increasing inflation and ever increasing rates. My personal position has seen my house bond increase by R2500 in the last 18 months. We have petrol increases - R800 a month more for our household (and I am fortunate enough to have a home office!). We have food price increases.
And now, we are going to have a "double whammied" inflation increase because of power instability and power price increases.
Rumour already exists that this week will see another rates increase.
By March, the inflationary pressures from this power crisis will start to be seen, and we will have another rate hike. April is power prince increases and that will be seen by June or July in our prices. So, expect another hike. Sometime around April/May we may start with electricity quotas - so expect that to impact your pocket in Sep/Octs prices, and a lovely rate hike will be left under your Xmas tree by Santa Tito in December.
Where am I expected to squeeze R5000 from to support the rate hikes of 30 months? Well, the R2000 odd rand I pay my domestic and gardener seem like a good place to start - rather that than cut my medical aid off and take my chanes at a public hospital.
So, no, the decision to "fire" (not my word) my domestic is not made in 5 mins - it is made over a period of months - even years.
Anyone who can claim that 14% is "low" need consider the above.
A R50 increase in the power use of one household, is simplistic - one needs to factor in the "cost" resulting from higher inflation and higher interest rates as a result.
Should this reach a point where people's jobs are at stake, we have the social consequences of increased unemployment, and the economic problem of slowing growth.
So, in summary, 14% is not "just R50" - it is twice inflation. And then, on top of a power crisis.
Government should reverse the ruling, and allow an increase of 5% to Eskom - this will help alleviate the inflationary pressures inherent in having to acquire generators etc.
Disclaimer: I may be off on things like the time it takes for inflationary costs to become rate hikes - however, I do not believe the basis is wrong. So, it may take 6-9 months, or just 1 month, for price increases to reflect in the rate of inflation change.
I do however, think the point needs to be discussed some more.
Every year for as long as I can remember, I have paid more for electricity - be this a City
Power increase, and whether or not Eskom claimed back from the municipalities is not my concern. I paid more. To say Eskom did not increase their costs is a non-issue.
I really want to concentrate on the 14% - especially in relation to inflation and power cuts.
14% is around twice the current inflation rate. Electricity is a production input expense. And one which cannot be avoided. You may argue that one can generate one's own electricity - but this is at a higher cost than Eskom, by many times.
So, what happens now with this input cost? Do companies absorb it, or do they pass it on to consumers?
Ultimately, it gets passed on - when it gets passed on is really based on many variables - such as the level of competition in their industry. As we have seen with bread prices, their is major collusion - I reckon electricity price increases will show in bread prices immediately. As well as in milk. And meat. And then we have the price increases due to additional business expenses - like production loss and generator purchases.
In addition to the price increases due to electricity, we need to factor in increases based on shortages that will develop from power cuts - we heard on this forum that SAB has dumped megalitres of beer - and while I fully appreciate that beer is not a basic good, I use it simply to make a point. Economics 101 - supply and demand. The lower the supply, the higher the price.
So, what do we have - we have, on the one hand, ever increasing inflation and ever increasing rates. My personal position has seen my house bond increase by R2500 in the last 18 months. We have petrol increases - R800 a month more for our household (and I am fortunate enough to have a home office!). We have food price increases.
And now, we are going to have a "double whammied" inflation increase because of power instability and power price increases.
Rumour already exists that this week will see another rates increase.
By March, the inflationary pressures from this power crisis will start to be seen, and we will have another rate hike. April is power prince increases and that will be seen by June or July in our prices. So, expect another hike. Sometime around April/May we may start with electricity quotas - so expect that to impact your pocket in Sep/Octs prices, and a lovely rate hike will be left under your Xmas tree by Santa Tito in December.
Where am I expected to squeeze R5000 from to support the rate hikes of 30 months? Well, the R2000 odd rand I pay my domestic and gardener seem like a good place to start - rather that than cut my medical aid off and take my chanes at a public hospital.
So, no, the decision to "fire" (not my word) my domestic is not made in 5 mins - it is made over a period of months - even years.
Anyone who can claim that 14% is "low" need consider the above.
A R50 increase in the power use of one household, is simplistic - one needs to factor in the "cost" resulting from higher inflation and higher interest rates as a result.
Should this reach a point where people's jobs are at stake, we have the social consequences of increased unemployment, and the economic problem of slowing growth.
So, in summary, 14% is not "just R50" - it is twice inflation. And then, on top of a power crisis.
Government should reverse the ruling, and allow an increase of 5% to Eskom - this will help alleviate the inflationary pressures inherent in having to acquire generators etc.
Disclaimer: I may be off on things like the time it takes for inflationary costs to become rate hikes - however, I do not believe the basis is wrong. So, it may take 6-9 months, or just 1 month, for price increases to reflect in the rate of inflation change.
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stoke
Honorary Master
Yup, time to tighten our belts and hold governmint responsible for their error by fighting every move they make until they prove their move is in our favour.
Moederloos
Honorary Master
I sold my belt already. It just looked odd after I lost my shirt in December.
stoke
Honorary Master
I know how you feel. I'm getting out of the pay governmint tax all the time game, and am getting into the different situation, where I earn below the taxable line and make maximum use of vat back by never ever being in profit, and i will now begin aggressively seeking other ways to get the advantages that are handed out left, right and centre to the rest of the country.
Moederloos
Honorary Master
I would probably be better off if I painted myself with shoe polish and claimed I was a Zimbabwean refugee.
OK - not really, but the very fact I thought about how it would affect me if I did, says a lot.