Mist4h20

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Hi all, I'm wondering if I could get some input if possible, Ford Bantam Rocam 2006, engine has 89000ks. Was initially using Shell helix 15w40, no issues, changed oil and filter this time used Midas brand 15w40 (they assured me it was as good) car sounded okay at first but a day or two goes by then when the car is cold it sounds like the lifters are ticking/grinding but when it gets warm it stops so as per friends advice flushed engine used Castrol GTX 20w50 changed filter again, now the noise is way more pronounced and the oil light is coming on. I'm thinking of trying thinner oil again, could this be the issue I don't really have money to throw at the car right now, if anyone can please provide some insight that would really be appreciated!
 

Düber

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Best advice I can give is to get the car to a mechanic and let them test the oil pressure with a proper gauge. It can be the oil, and some motors are sensitive to the kind and viscosity index, but that usually causes strange sounds, not a loss of oil pressure.
 

Mist4h20

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Does anyone have experience with Midas 15w40? Compared to the shell which was doing fine in the engine only thing that changed was the oil, could mixing oil blocked something at all?
 

eg2505

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could be certain oil works with certain engines.

I know that sounds like nonsense, but certain oil is recommended in the owners manual.
so it needs to be adhered to, as strange things start happening when oil brands change.

I know Hyundai and kia's are similar, only work correctly with shell oil, and not something like Castrol.
never could understand why, but maybe its got to do with certain formulations tested initially.
 

Mist4h20

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Thanks I think I'll just try change the oil back and see what happens sigh hopefully this works thanks guys
 

Düber

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We had a problem a few years back where after changing oil suppliers we lost 3 motors in a row on our trucks. Long investigation later, it turned out the new oil( a Shell) had more detergent properties/additives than the previous( Engen/Petronas ) oil. So what had happened was all the years of accumulated carbon and other muck was dislodged and had an adventure in the motors.

As @eg2505 pointed out some motors, like the Hilux D4D are fussy about what oil gets given to them, but then just run noisily, they don't lose oil pressure. As it could be the sender unit that is faulty, the best way is to fit a gauge and test to be sure.
Running a motor with low/no oil pressure is going to cause damage that might only show itself later on.
 
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Mist4h20

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Put Shell helix 15w40 in again and noise is still there, forgot to mention oil like came on after changing to thicker oil, now oil light stays on even with thinner oil back in..I'm thinking the oil pump, so going to take off sump and have a look..
 

Düber

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I'm thinking the oil pump, so going to take off sump and have a look..

:sick:Sounds like bad news I'm afraid, run a magnet through that oil that you drained first, if it has shiny glittery bits in it then it is most likely a bearing, Also "feel" the oil through your fingers it should be smooth and slippery.
Before you take the sump off, there are other causes of low oil pressure other than the pump( and more often than not it is not the pump) so rather rule those out first.

Just thinking-Was the oil filter exactly the same as the original? Some might fit but have a valve in them...
 

Mist4h20

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:sick:Sounds like bad news I'm afraid, run a magnet through that oil that you drained first, if it has shiny glittery bits in it then it is most likely a bearing, Also "feel" the oil through your fingers it should be smooth and slippery.
Before you take the sump off, there are other causes of low oil pressure other than the pump( and more often than not it is not the pump) so rather rule those out first.

Just thinking-Was the oil filter exactly the same as the original? Some might fit but have a valve in them...
The reason I think it's the pump/chain of the pump is that it was working fine, then changed oil got a noise when cold then changed oil again but thicker oil and noise is there all the time but oil light only came on second oil change thus maybe oil pressure was okay with right viscosity but thicker oil put strain on already aged pump? If that makes sense oil looked fine both times, filter is the same yes
 

Düber

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The reason I think it's the pump/chain


1556124457220.png

If I am not wrong this is the oil pump on that motor, it gets driven by the crank, some have two flats others have splines(No idea what the rocam has), on some engines the "flats" or the splines wear out, but otherwise it is pretty tough.
I have had it where some gunge gets stuck in the relief valve on the pump and it therefore just "dumps" the pressure.
Get a new filter of a different make and try that perhaps.
Take the tappet/cam cover off and see if oil is getting to the top of motor might narrow down places to look.
If the oil is clean that is good news, but find the problem.
 

Mist4h20

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View attachment 649782

If I am not wrong this is the oil pump on that motor, it gets driven by the crank, some have two flats others have splines(No idea what the rocam has), on some engines the "flats" or the splines wear out, but otherwise it is pretty tough.
I have had it where some gunge gets stuck in the relief valve on the pump and it therefore just "dumps" the pressure.
Get a new filter of a different make and try that perhaps.
Take the tappet/cam cover off and see if oil is getting to the top of motor might narrow down places to look.
If the oil is clean that is good news, but find the problem.
I'm not 100% on this but I think it's chain driven as from what I can see without taking off the sump it looks like this: %22unnamed-1.jpg
The gunk build up sounds very plausible or maybe even something stupid like orings decayed? The car is. 2006 so is prone to some wear. Thanks for your input.. will advise if I get anywhere
 

WAslayer

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View attachment 649782

If I am not wrong this is the oil pump on that motor, it gets driven by the crank, some have two flats others have splines(No idea what the rocam has), on some engines the "flats" or the splines wear out, but otherwise it is pretty tough.
I have had it where some gunge gets stuck in the relief valve on the pump and it therefore just "dumps" the pressure.
Get a new filter of a different make and try that perhaps.
Take the tappet/cam cover off and see if oil is getting to the top of motor might narrow down places to look.
If the oil is clean that is good news, but find the problem.
It's this pump on those engines.. they are notorious for the spring, that's used to push a piston and regulate pressure, breaking and you end up with a noise akin to lifter knock but, not quite the same..

Remember back when I was working engine engineering dealing with this issue on the boss's bantam..
 

Mist4h20

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@Düber thanks for following up, I meant to report back but been a bit busy, okay so after pulley removed it is the pump you guys mentioned however apparently you have to take the gearbox off before the sump can be removed, will do that tomorrow morning, poor visibility currently
 

Mist4h20

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Finally had a chance to get the pump out, if I spin the crank driven part it pumps oil fine, is this a good enough test? There are tiny pieces of metal in the oil, I'm hoping is not a bearing as @Düber has mentioned. Is there a possibility that the internal of the pump may be reason for the metal? Or is it more likely bearing in which case I'm pretty screwed?
 

WAslayer

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Finally had a chance to get the pump out, if I spin the crank driven part it pumps oil fine, is this a good enough test? There are tiny pieces of metal in the oil, I'm hoping is not a bearing as @Düber has mentioned. Is there a possibility that the internal of the pump may be reason for the metal? Or is it more likely bearing in which case I'm pretty screwed?
Not really a good enough test.. the engine will have it spinning a lot faster than you can and when the engine is running, the metal expands as well and need to take that into account..

If the metal is from the pump, you should see the wear on the pump somewhere, from where it's originating..

Take off the oil filter though and see how much metal flakes is in there..
 

Düber

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@Mist4h20 , since you have the sump off either give the big end bearings a good feel and wiggle or if you have a torque wrench take a cap off( after marking which way it fits) and check the bearings themselves.
When they are still tight( the bolts) they should have no perceptible play around the crank, only a little side to side.

On the pump, check the relief valve as @WAslayer pointed out, or take the pump to somebody for some advice, some of the guys working in spares shops might be able to help you too. But I doubt that is the problem.
Also as suggested cut the oil filter open.
 

Mist4h20

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Opened up the pump and no visible wear, everything looks decent still. Relief valve moves freely. Pickup tube isn't blocked. Checked the bearing like you said and very little side to side play. I threw the original filter away the first oil change unfortunately. I'm thinking there's some blockage in the head? Maybe that noise was the bearing there which is responsible for the noise. Probably should have checked that first :D :( anyway tomorrows problem. I really appreciate the input and advice though, thanks guys.
 
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