George Floyd death

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rambo919 said:
Don't mix after release with after entrance. I don't know the capacity he had to issue orders from prison.

As for violence and his release, quick google



www.sahistory.org.za

Changing Perceptions of Nelson Mandela

Nelson Mandela is a figure who has undergone many transformations in the eye of the South African public as well as in the global imagination. Nelson Mandela is a figure who has undergone many transformations in the eye of the South African public as well as in the global imagination. He has...
www.sahistory.org.za www.sahistory.org.za

That was the ANC and other black groups that did that not the NP
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Not armed struggle. ANC v IFP political violence. Nearly threw off CODESA and the '94 election but you know, history or whatever.

Also, seems to me your, 'I'd like to speak to the manger' should be addressed to folk like Chris Hani and Joe Modise rather than Nelson.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
Yes, Mandela is implicated. In history, where correctional services apply, it can be constitutionally said that Mandela promoted equality. European history is drenched in revolutions, anarchy and subversions. There is a lot in our own history which is unknown, why racial, cultural and traditional integration didn’t sprout. We aren’t scholars, our entire democracy is based on Apartheid’s abolishment, not on what happened prior to Apartheid though colonialism has become a politicking medium.

To get back to the point, Mandela as a president is hardly the known terrorist. A person like Mugabe was a hero once… People inherently cannot change, but we can become better people. Entities (and organisations) are people, and those people collectively make an entity. The ANC is an entity, where are the ANC's alignment now?

No, people aren’t inherently racist. It is stupid saying IMHO. Education starts at home, home is where most peoples perception takes root and systematically we are introduced to other individuals and groups with their unique ideologies. We are all sculpted by exposure and our interactions.
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Respect Fulcrum, very well said.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
Yes, Mandela is implicated. In history, where correctional services apply, it can be constitutionally said that Mandela promoted equality. European history is drenched in revolutions, anarchy and subversions. There is a lot in our own history which is unknown, why racial, cultural and traditional integration didn’t sprout. We aren’t scholars, our entire democracy is based on Apartheid’s abolishment, not on what happened prior to Apartheid though colonialism has become a politicking medium.
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And that is why this system of democracy is doomed to failure, it's entirely short sighted and teetering on it's edge of lies.... it's gonna fall, hard.

To get back to the point, Mandela as a president is hardly the known terrorist. A person like Mugabe was a hero once… People inherently cannot change, but we can become better people. Entities (and organisations) are people, and those people collectively make an entity. The ANC is an entity, where are the ANC's alignment now?
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Where it's always been "Power, Forever"

No, people aren’t inherently racist. It is stupid saying IMHO. Education starts at home, home is where most peoples perception takes root and systematically we are introduced to other individuals and groups with their unique ideologies. We are all sculpted by exposure and our interactions.
Click to expand...
The problem here is the blank slate fallacy. Somethings are blank and others are hard wired but takes a while to develop. To a degree people are inherently racist because we are hard wired to stick to what most resembles ourselves, to a degree people are not inherently racist because you have to actually know a different group to really hate individuals of that group as a proxy for that group.

Not all kinds of racism (assuming we are using the same definition of the word) are equal, simplyfying it as simply "evil, don't discriminate for any reason" to me is stupid.

For example, I literally personally know no indians, the first and only indians I ever met were a few years in college.... I neither love nor hate them. It is literally impossible for me to be racist towards them. I kinda know one pakistani but he is extremely sketchy (gives me the hibejeebedies actually) and it is impossible for me to be racist towards pakistanis just because of that.

Real racism is not automatic, it takes exposure which forms credible (to the individual at least) negative stereotypes. You don't need to be taught racism, real life experience is enough for many people.
 
cerebus said:
Oh come on enough with the hagiography. Churchill was undoubtedly one of the great men of history and he did probably more than any single person to drive back the Nazis, but he also held views that were unequivocally vile and racist, even judged by the standards of his time.
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Interesting comment. Not necessarily disagreeing or agreeing, but could you please point me to some literature on the bolded part from his time?
 
greg0205 said:
Not armed struggle. ANC v IFP political violence. Nearly threw off CODESA and the '94 election but you know, history or whatever.

Also, seems to me your, 'I'd like to speak to the manger' should be addressed to folk like Chris Hani and Joe Modise rather than Nelson.
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Not all that violence was inter-faction struggle though, much of it was against so called collaborators.... you necklace a traitor not someone outside.

I find it impossible for any leader of the ANC in that period to not have blood on his hands, their need for absolute loyalty would not have tolerated real men of peace. And then there is his crazy ex wife..... but nvm the witch.
 
Sollie said:
Interesting comment. Not necessarily disagreeing or agreeing, but could you please point me to some literature on the bolded part from his time?
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www.nytimes.com

The Two Churchills (Published 2010)

Churchill led Britain through her finest hour but, as this history shows, he had his own disturbing history of conquest, racism and brutality.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

www.independent.co.uk

Not his finest hour: The dark side of Winston Churchill

Winston Churchill is rightly remembered for leading Britain through her finest hour – but what if he also led the country through her most shameful hour? What if, in addition to rousing a nation to save the world from the Nazis, he fought for a raw white supremacism and a concentration camp...
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Of course, it’s easy to dismiss any criticism of these actions as anachronistic. Didn’t everybody think that way then? One of the most striking findings of Toye’s research is that they really didn’t: even at the time, Churchill was seen as at the most brutal and brutish end of the British imperialist spectrum. Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin was warned by Cabinet colleagues not to appoint him because his views were so antedeluvian. Even his startled doctor, Lord Moran, said of other races: “Winston thinks only of the colour of their skin.”

Many of his colleagues thought Churchill was driven by a deep loathing of democracy for anyone other than the British and a tiny clique of supposedly superior races. This was clearest in his attitude to India. When Mahatma Gandhi launched his campaign of peaceful resistance, Churchill raged that he “ought to be lain bound hand and foot at the gates of Delhi, and then trampled on by an enormous elephant with the new Viceroy seated on its back.” As the resistance swelled, he announced: “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.” This hatred killed. To give just one, major, example, in 1943 a famine broke out in Bengal, caused – as the Nobel Prize-winning economist Amartya Sen has proved – by the imperial policies of the British. Up to 3 million people starved to death while British officials begged Churchill to direct food supplies to the region. He bluntly refused. He raged that it was their own fault for “breeding like rabbits”. At other times, he said the plague was “merrily” culling the population.
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Sollie said:
Interesting comment. Not necessarily disagreeing or agreeing, but could you please point me to some literature on the bolded part from his time?
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en.m.wikipedia.org

Racial views of Winston Churchill - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

www.independent.co.uk

The darker side of Britain's most iconic wartime hero

It's the anniversary of the funeral of the iconic PM who led Britain to victory against Hitler's Nazi Germany. But he had a darker side, too
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Cerebus beat me to it. It's pretty well documented.
 
Hellhound105 said:
The problem is in a few days the virtue signalling will have worn off.
But....BUT, working in the houses of the people they oppressed for no pay seems a much better fit.
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Shall we point out that the feet washing goes back to the bible, it's the master washing the disciples' feet. Or would that be cruel ... :sneaky:
 
rambo919 said:
The problem here is the blank slate fallacy. Somethings are blank and others are hard wired but takes a while to develop. To a degree people are inherently racist because we are hard wired to stick to what most resembles ourselves, to a degree people are not inherently racist because you have to actually know a different group to really hate individuals of that group as a proxy for that group.
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It is also known as xenophobia, you know, ethnocentrism? It isn't racism per se though one can take root in the other.

The internet as a discovery helped a lot to bridge this 'hard wire', but the internet is also a multi-tool.
 
konfab said:
Honk Honk

You are digging yourself deeper.

EZW7WdSWsAAU0rH


There is no free speech justification for vandalism. Elsewise, would you be so brave as to volunteer to have a Trump sticker placed on your car so that the non-violent and peaceful protestors can destroy it?
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Yes some paint on some stone is the same as blowing up ancient architecture. More strawmanning from you.

There is a significant debate on the legitimacy of vandalism as an expression of free speech.

If some mofo president erected a statue of Hitler, it would be a very justifiable expression of free speech to vandalise that all day every day.
 
BBSA said:
www.heraldlive.co.za

'We do not speak to the devil': EFF KZN as it protests outside US consulate

EFF KwaZulu-Natal chairperson Vusi Khoza has likened the US to a “devil” and indicated the party did not bring a memorandum of demands to the US consulate because they do not “speak to the devil”.
www.heraldlive.co.za www.heraldlive.co.za

I love it when a racist organisation, like the EFF, fights racism:giggle:
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This cracked me up:

"the party did not bring a memorandum of demands to the US consulate because they do not “speak to the devil”."
 
Fulcrum29 said:
It is also known as xenophobia, you know, ethnocentrism? It isn't racism per se though one can take root in the other.

The internet as a discovery helped a lot to bridge this 'hard wire', but the internet is also a multi-tool.
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You are conflating things here. Ethnocentrism is a cultural preferential worldview for one's own culture, xenophobia is a irrational fear of the outsider. Xenophobia is nor a rational fear, rational hatred or necessarily irrational hatred.

All these things don't necessarily follow.

The internet has only allowed for free flow of most information, not all and not directed. Some people choose to cast off ignorance and others to entrench it.

Hard wiring is not something that can simply be bullied away as people are still trying, it stays there in the subconcious and makes the flocks react in ways those of lesser understanding do not expect. Multi-culturalism has NEVER worked long term at any point in history and is now collapsing, it was collapsing slowly but now it's racing.

Take any empire that tried it, it fell apart in civil war and riots. Babylonian/Persians, Grecko/Romans, whatever exactly the chinese/manchurian/chosen/etc one was, Austro-Hungerian empire (for a modern one), and so on. It always ends the same. Chaos and destruction.

Yes Rome had a soft collapse but not before a century of civil wars and the western capital being repeatedly sacked by frontier parts of the empire.

You NEED one dominant culture in order for society to function, there is no alternative. The British/American Empire will fall the same way the others did before it.
 
rambo919 said:
Not all that violence was inter-faction struggle though, much of it was against so called collaborators.... you necklace a traitor not someone outside.

I find it impossible for any leader of the ANC in that period to not have blood on his hands, their need for absolute loyalty would not have tolerated real men of peace. And then there is his crazy ex wife..... but nvm the witch.
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/Checks where we were talking about the armed struggle against apartheid.

/Checks your "collaborators" post

/Checks where we were talking about the armed struggle against apartheid again.

/Checks your "collaborators" post again.

 
greg0205 said:
/Checks where we were talking about the armed struggle against apartheid.

/Checks your "collaborators" post

/Checks where we were talking about the armed struggle against apartheid again.

/Checks your "collaborators" post again.
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/Wonders what exactly the point is?
 
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