Going back to the army ?

BTTB

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And how is conscription going to drop the crime rate is my question?

For a start The Government has stated categorically that sending the army into crime infested areas is not an option/policy and the task of the SAPS alone.

I wasted 2 years of my life doing National Service.
Only to see Permanent Force Members call up National Serviceman to come do Guard Duty for them while they go on XMas Holidays etc, while I had to scrape off a living from R200 a month to help pay for my flat, my wife and I had at the time.
The only time in my life where I took food without paying for it, by bringing home on one or two occasions a tin of Raadsaal Coffee that I managed to "smokkel" in the kitchen to help make ends meet at home. **** coffee too.
No thanks.

For many a young fellow a stint in the army wouldn't do them any harm.
Get them away from loafing on the couch, watching TV and playing Computer Games and eating Junk Food.

I suspect the National Defence Force has got hundreds of Army Bases devoid of conscripts, underutilised and costing them money.
Perhaps they need more troops to send to the rest of Africa on further Peace Keeping Missions, seeing that it takes up the Lion's Share of the Defence Budget.

Sorry to sound so negative. The last time our Army could have been called an Army was the the day the last Conscripts were recruited, not caring to check what year that was.
Perhaps the Defence Force realises this and is trying to prop up a failing system, one they helped destroy in the first place.
E.g. Over 100 Rear Admirals in the SA Navy a couple of years ago. Not sure of the situation now?
 
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air

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some more military shenanigans ---> http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,9294,2-7-1442_1985806,00.html

Pretoria - The newly-appointed director of prosecutions in the defence force's legal department who has to make decisions about prosecuting soldiers, himself has a criminal record.

Shockwaves rippled through military legal circles the past week after the appointment of Brigadier General Ernest Zwane, 40, was announced.

He replaces Brigadier General Annemarie Myburgh, the first female senior military judge, who became a general in 1999.

Zwane was found guilty in November 2005 of two charges of fraud after he claimed to have qualifications from Fort Hare University, among other claims. He was also found guilty of illegally possessing a firearm and ammunition.

Zwane was sentenced to five years' imprisonment on the two fraud charges.

The sentence was suspended for five years. For illegally being in possession of a firearm he was fined R4 000 and R1 000 for the ammunition contravention, or 18 months' imprisonment.

Zwane and another defence force general, Brigadier General Petronella Mari, both employed by the SA Military Health Services, were caught by the Scorpions in November 2002 in an investigation into state officials with fake qualifications.

At the time of his arrest and until quite recently, Zwane was in the defence force's legal department support service which controls the department's budget.

Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota approved Zwane's appointment after the appointment of directors in the legal services department dragged on for more than five months.

One of the reasons was apparently because the former directors were not representative enough.

Defence force legal practitioners said Zwane's appointment has far-reaching negative implications for the efficient working of the military judiciary.

The lack of qualifications was apparently mentioned in a discussion of his appointment because he didn't require any legal qualifications in his previous post. It was apparently said at the time that it was sufficient if a candidate just had the necessary potential.

In his new post he will be in control of all military prosecutors and they will appear under his authority.

A military legal official told Beeld this could technically mean that a prosecutor's competence could be questioned in court.

It also means policy guidelines could not be enforced if Zwane writes them, because these guidelines must be written by a legal practitioner.
 

diabolus

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And i suddenly start thinking of those ANC-terrorist/militant groups. What were they called? "Umkhonto we Sizwe"....?

Trip back down memory lane:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,950873-1,00.html
Just three days after a bomb blast killed 18 people on a crowded sidewalk in Pretoria, a dozen South African jet fighters were skimming low over Maputo, capital of neighboring Mozambique. After loosing a barrage of rocket, cannon and machine-gun fire at private residences and a jam factory in a suburb of the port city, the Impala fighters peeled off westward and headed home.

Tambo, whose head quarters are in Lusaka, the capital of Zambia, has built a force estimated at 6,000 men and women trained as saboteurs and urban terrorists. They are kept in countries such as Tanzania and Angola until dispatched in small numbers for a specific sabotage operation. The A.N.C. receives financial support, training and weapons from East bloc and African governments and the World Council of Churches, and its guerrillas have been trained in countries as far apart as Angola and East Germany. In addition, the A.N.C. has thousands of clandestine members inside South Africa.
And these people are now running the country.... anyone heard of ZANUPF and "veterans" and what these military people generally do ?
 
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John H

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There is no need to worry that the army will teach wannabe criminals any tactics.
The troops that are trained by the army, are useless. They are lazy, arrogant and the "thing" they undergo cannot be called training.
The SANDF has already become a place for those with no future and who cannot find a proper job.
It has become a place for all the losers in life. Conscription will flock them together, give them clothes, feed them and give them a roof over their heads.They will not become proper soldiers. It will be sort of like a welfare institution.
Oh, and they will also be able to "sick report" and get free medical treatment. With AIDS and TB these days that are also spreading like a wild fire through the Defence Force, the guavamint should rather let the SANDF fall under the Department Of Health, with General Manto Msimang running it.
 

kilps

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My question - firstly would this be across the board conscription or based on the Selective Service System of the US (which is still in place, but not used)? And secondly does anyone know how this would stand with the constitution?

As one of the youth ... this is something I would seriously oppose ...
 

Tux

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As a former SADF conscript and later PF member... All I can say is this: Are they fscking daft?
 

Lord Anubis

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1. We could always declare war on Zim (definitely a good option)..or invade Lesotho and what about those Swaziis with those funny ear lobe holes, definitely need to teach them a lesson!
2. On the other hand I have no problem with them exporting say 10 million of our little hijacking murdering drug dealing pantzula's to Iraq to make them into real men
3. Send above mention10 million to the antarctic to defend our base
4. Increase conscription to previously disadvantaged groups ages 5-65 and send them to antarctic to defend our base and yes the term is 50 yrs not 2
5. Export our conscripts to above the equator line i.e. Sudan/Ethiopia
6. Send the 20 Million of them back to Ghana/Kenya/Nigeria (where they originally all come from) as peace keeping force. I'll gladly pay for that!
7. Better yet, conscript only whitey (all ages AND MUST incl all family members) and send them as a peace keeping force to UK and US as apermanenet force (please send me now!)
 

R/SGT

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Guys it is not such a bad idea but they should modify it, take the military out of the equation and rather put civil service or something along those lines.

Take in the conscripts, send them through some sort of basic training, which will equip them with a variety of basic skills. Things like building, plumbing, electrical, computers, basic medical etc.

Once that is completed they can parcel them out to various areas as per their apttitude test. They can go and work in Hospitals, Clinics, Firestations, building Rdp houses, etc

Many youngsters today have no direction and giving them exsposure to a wide a variety of jobs as possible could help them find a career

There are many youngsters today who are captured in a dangerous spiral towards crime as a result of their circumstances and background. Rather remove them from it and give them hope, we are a developing country with a real need for skilled and semi skilled individuals.
 

Syndyre

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Guys it is not such a bad idea but they should modify it, take the military out of the equation and rather put civil service or something along those lines.

Take in the conscripts, send them through some sort of basic training, which will equip them with a variety of basic skills. Things like building, plumbing, electrical, computers, basic medical etc.

Once that is completed they can parcel them out to various areas as per their apttitude test. They can go and work in Hospitals, Clinics, Firestations, building Rdp houses, etc

Many youngsters today have no direction and giving them exsposure to a wide a variety of jobs as possible could help them find a career

There are many youngsters today who are captured in a dangerous spiral towards crime as a result of their circumstances and background. Rather remove them from it and give them hope, we are a developing country with a real need for skilled and semi skilled individuals.
Its not such a bad idea if it was voluntary, my question remains, why should it be mandatory?
 

VernD

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1. We could always declare war on Zim (definitely a good option)..or invade Lesotho and what about those Swaziis with those funny ear lobe holes, definitely need to teach them a lesson!
2. On the other hand I have no problem with them exporting say 10 million of our little hijacking murdering drug dealing pantzula's to Iraq to make them into real men
3. Send above mention10 million to the antarctic to defend our base
4. Increase conscription to previously disadvantaged groups ages 5-65 and send them to antarctic to defend our base and yes the term is 50 yrs not 2
5. Export our conscripts to above the equator line i.e. Sudan/Ethiopia
6. Send the 20 Million of them back to Ghana/Kenya/Nigeria (where they originally all come from) as peace keeping force. I'll gladly pay for that!
7. Better yet, conscript only whitey (all ages AND MUST incl all family members) and send them as a peace keeping force to UK and US as apermanenet force (please send me now!)
*sniff sniff sniff* Your comment reeks of prejudice. I hope this is a joke, and even if it it is, nobody's laughing. So, if nobody is laughing, is it still a joke then ?
 

Lord Anubis

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*sniff sniff sniff* Your comment reeks of prejudice. I hope this is a joke, and even if it it is, nobody's laughing. So, if nobody is laughing, is it still a joke then ?
sniff, sniff, sniff R U ON CRACK??

I am ROFLMAO right now:p
 

Sneeky

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Guys it is not such a bad idea but they should modify it, take the military out of the equation and rather put civil service or something along those lines.

Take in the conscripts, send them through some sort of basic training, which will equip them with a variety of basic skills. Things like building, plumbing, electrical, computers, basic medical etc.

Once that is completed they can parcel them out to various areas as per their apttitude test. They can go and work in Hospitals, Clinics, Firestations, building Rdp houses, etc

Many youngsters today have no direction and giving them exsposure to a wide a variety of jobs as possible could help them find a career

There are many youngsters today who are captured in a dangerous spiral towards crime as a result of their circumstances and background. Rather remove them from it and give them hope, we are a developing country with a real need for skilled and semi skilled individuals.
I haven't read this whole post yet, but this does sound more practical.
It would have to be mandatory because if it wasn't nobody would go, or stay once there.

The military could facilitate this and it could be completely non-combat orientated courses that focus on teamwork and skills upliftment.
That would be fantastic, really.
Mandatory also because it is not just one segment of the population that requires this, the rot is across the board.
As examples theres have been 2 well reported cases of late where the youths from elitist schools have gone on a rampage of violence leaving one bloke paralyzed and another with massive reconstructive surgery.
All of this was off course swept under the carpet in a not so secret fashion.
One of the schools in question was St Johns!

Minimum 6 months training for everyone.
 

Syndyre

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I haven't read this whole post yet, but this does sound more practical.
It would have to be mandatory because if it wasn't nobody would go, or stay once there.

The military could facilitate this and it could be completely non-combat orientated courses that focus on teamwork and skills upliftment.
That would be fantastic, really.
Mandatory also because it is not just one segment of the population that requires this, the rot is across the board.
As examples theres have been 2 well reported cases of late where the youths from elitist schools have gone on a rampage of violence leaving one bloke paralyzed and another with massive reconstructive surgery.
All of this was off course swept under the carpet in a not so secret fashion.
One of the schools in question was St Johns!

Minimum 6 months training for everyone.
The "rot" doesn't include me and a lot of people I know which is why I would object to it being across the board. Its rather totalitarian if you ask me. Do you think this would even help? And would it really be as idealistic as you or is it more likely to be an ANC indoctrination course?
 

DigitalSoldier

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The "rot" doesn't include me and a lot of people I know which is why I would object to it being across the board. Its rather totalitarian if you ask me. Do you think this would even help? And would it really be as idealistic as you or is it more likely to be an ANC indoctrination course?
It can work but should not be mandatory for all, it should be like it was in the gulf war in america(correction on which war?? :D) if you went to varsity no need to enroll in the army.
 

Syndyre

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It can work but should not be mandatory for all, it should be like it was in the gulf war in america(correction on which war?? :D) if you went to varsity no need to enroll in the army.
Vietnam? Sounds like one way of doing it.
 
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