How to save Telkom: Free the local loop

If they unbundle the local loop then we would not be forced to take the line rental for adsl is that correct?
 
moggie said:
The problem is that it will cost us consumers more and not less. As per the article Telkom have an access deficit - they are making a loss on the local loop. If the LL were to be sold to another company, that company will have to charge you at least what it is costing them. Ergo - rental increases...
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Yes, but the R350 "adsl line rental" for 4meg would fall away, so if it costs R300 in total instead of R500, we win! :D
 
Get the union bosses.

Tell them in a clear and understandable language that this must be done otherwise more job losses will result. And get the army as backup.

They can resume their nonsense after the LLU issue have been sorted out.
 
rsd said:
Yes, but the R350 "adsl line rental" for 4meg would fall away, so if it costs R300 in total instead of R500, we win! :D
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I dont understand how LLU would help us end users? Will private companies be allowed to buy segments of the cable, so there would be different service providers per area, and therefore different levels of quality depending on the area you live in.

Also what will interconnect charges be, to call from one service provider to another?

I dont buy it. depending on where you live and the company that buys the copper in your area, you could be screwed or be smiling.

This is assuming my idea of LLU is correct ie different private service providers buy copper for different areas.
 
moggie said:
No, it won't. It would make them leaner and stronger as they would then concentrate on being a pure network provider and then they could dabble in the retail sector if they want to...

Their biggest cost (and loss) component of their business is the local loop.
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I do not agree with you moggie. Their biggest cost and lost component is Multi-Links. If they have spent that kind of money in South Africa on particularly DSL and being more competitive, they would have had more clients. Give people decent service at a decent price and they will come back, but once bitten twice shy. They focus on the wrong things, like mobile telecoms.
 
Raphael123 said:
If they unbundle the local loop then we would not be forced to take the line rental for adsl is that correct?
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No Really there is still a cost but an ISP can add it in to the price he charges as a value add you will end up paying less for the service and with a lot of ISP's it will be very competative so prices will come down where right now Telkom sets the price for the local loop and they can charge what ever they want and talk crap about how much it costs to maintain the infrastructure
 
farimir said:
I do not agree with you moggie. Their biggest cost and lost component is Multi-Links. If they have spent that kind of money in South Africa on particularly DSL and being more competitive, they would have had more clients. Give people decent service at a decent price and they will come back, but once bitten twice shy. They focus on the wrong things, like mobile telecoms.
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I'm speaking of their SA based operations...
 
killkom said:
I think the big question is how much is it actually costing Telkom to support the local loop do they actually know or are they making up this rubbish about it costing so much to maintain to justifiy the high prices to other isp's and users

I think I vote for the second reason or we would have a telkom eager to get rid of the local loop and if they really wanted to it would be gone already
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Precisely.

This is EXACTLY what I thought. Since when was it so expensive to maintain the LL? This is news to me and as far as I know this is the very 1st time any article has been published about it. Suddenly it is so expensive to maintain? Are we all forgetting that the LL was paid for by Tax payers many, many years ago, so Telkom have been milking the infrastructure and making pure profit (while charging us) for years. Now they want to complain about the price of maintaining it? I don't feel sorry for them at all - instead of lining their Fat-Cat pockets with huge bonuses over the years, they could have ploughed some of those profits into upgrading the LL and catching up with the rest of the world. Now, technology is advancing and we are demanding bigger caps and better speeds and some semblance of levels of service and price that the rest of the world enjoys and Telkom find themselves in a position where they are incapable to deliver this. How is this our fault? Why must we feel sorry for them?

I am not sure I believe this cr@p anyhow - personally, I think the new Head of Telkom is trying some clever marketing stunt to try (yet again) pull the wool over our eyes. The local loop was paid for in full, many years ago. So sorry you own it and have been milking it (us) for decades, but it is your responsibility to maintain it!
 
Slash69 said:
Precisely.

This is EXACTLY what I thought. Since when was it so expensive to maintain the LL? This is news to me and as far as I know this is the very 1st time any article has been published about it. Suddenly it is so expensive to maintain? Are we all forgetting that the LL was paid for by Tax payers many, many years ago, so Telkom have been milking the infrastructure and making pure profit (while charging us) for years. Now they want to complain about the price of maintaining it? I don't feel sorry for them at all - instead of lining their Fat-Cat pockets with huge bonuses over the years, they could have ploughed some of those profits into upgrading the LL and catching up with the rest of the world. Now, technology is advancing and we are demanding bigger caps and better speeds and some semblance of levels of service and price that the rest of the world enjoys and Telkom find themselves in a position where they are incapable to deliver this. How is this our fault? Why must we feel sorry for them?

I am not sure I believe this cr@p anyhow - personally, I think the new Head of Telkom is trying some clever marketing stunt to try (yet again) pull the wool over our eyes. The local loop was paid for in full, many years ago. So sorry you own it and have been milking it (us) for decades, but it is your responsibility to maintain it!
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Here's a few links...
http://www.techcentral.co.za/telkom-caught-in-pricing-poser/15340/
http://www.techcentral.co.za/telkom-wants-fixed-line-rates-to-go-up/15151/
http://www.icasa.org.za/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=489ntICs1AM=&tabid=190&mid=1020&forcedownload=true
http://uir.unisa.ac.za/dspace/bitst... research report PK Dube Cover & Contents.pdf
http://www.thepresidency.gov.za/docs/reports/15year_review/economic/telecommuncations.pdf
 
DuckieZA said:
May be slightly off-topic but ...

From a broadband perspective, does freeing the local loop actually help?

How would that affect IPC? From what I can glean, it is IPC that really controls the broadband pricing, and Telkom controls that. Or is the consequence that when LLU goes through, IPC disappears?

Anyone who knows anything about that care to comment?
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This is where we need to focus if we want lower BB prices!!!
 
You guys just talk and talk, but no action. Why don;t we take a poll or march, handover memorandum, or strike, or any anything. We need to put pressure on goverment or get rid of the communcations minister.

I am sick and tired of our goverment raping us on a daily basis. We getting use too the state of when to bend over and get the vaseline ready. The public servants are striking and deamanding higher wages. We should od the same in demanding scrapping of LLU and lower pricing on internet charges.

:mad::mad::mad:
 
Now there are a number of ways to get this done, firstly Telkom could set a price for access and other operators would have to pay it, secondly Telkom could create a special, independent, division to run this and it would set the prices that everyone – including Telkom – would have to pay for access to the local loop. Finally, and this is my personal favourite, Telkom would take its local loop infrastructure, spin it off into a separate company that would be responsible for installing, maintaining and repairing the entire local loop infrastructure.
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Number 3 is the ONLY option. Telkom will only cross-subsidise itself with the other two options, pretty much like it's currently doing by being both wholesaler and retailer in the internet connectivity market. It sells its services to itself at a discount compared to other buyers and charges the end-user the same as everyone else. It has a much bigger margin to play with. No. It's time for Telkom to give it up entirely.

Juice
 
moggie said:
Here's a few links...
http://www.techcentral.co.za/telkom-caught-in-pricing-poser/15340/
http://www.techcentral.co.za/telkom-wants-fixed-line-rates-to-go-up/15151/
http://www.icasa.org.za/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=489ntICs1AM=&tabid=190&mid=1020&forcedownload=true
http://uir.unisa.ac.za/dspace/bitst... research report PK Dube Cover & Contents.pdf
http://www.thepresidency.gov.za/docs/reports/15year_review/economic/telecommuncations.pdf
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And how much of that cost has got to do with replacing stolen copper lines? Now keep in mind that the twits at Telkom should have invested money upgrading to fiber a long time ago, instead of lining their pockets with totally unwarranted excessive bonuses. *spits at all ex-CEOs and GEOs*
 
All we need is Juliaaaassssss. Someone just needs to say the words nationalise, racists, colonialists and Telkom in the same sentence. Maybe drop in the word LLU as well. Then things will start to happen, and it will get the whole country talking....
 
Juice said:
Number 3 is the ONLY option. Telkom will only cross-subsidise itself with the other two options, pretty much like it's currently doing by being both wholesaler and retailer in the internet connectivity market. It sells its services to itself at a discount compared to other buyers and charges the end-user the same as everyone else. It has a much bigger margin to play with. No. It's time for Telkom to give it up entirely.

Juice
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+1. My thoughts exactly.
 
DuckieZA said:
May be slightly off-topic but ...

From a broadband perspective, does freeing the local loop actually help?

How would that affect IPC? From what I can glean, it is IPC that really controls the broadband pricing, and Telkom controls that. Or is the consequence that when LLU goes through, IPC disappears?

Anyone who knows anything about that care to comment?
Click to expand...

It would give other telco operators a chance to service their clients directly, without going through Telkom's IPC connections.

Of course, to do that, each telco would need to install their own DSLAM's, provide their own fiber backhaul to their own networks, etc, at each exchange where they have customers.

Dark Fiber would be one approach to achieving this, just get them to run a bundle to each exchange (based on demand, perhaps), and then the LLU operator would rent space and power, etc, to telco operators in each exchange for them to put their equipment in, and wire them up to the last mile copper leading to their customers.

So, the ultimate connection would go like this:

Customer (ADSL) -> copper (owned by LLU operator) -> exchange (owned by LLU operator) -> DSLAM (owned by independent telco) -> fiber (operated by DFA) -> telco network -> nothing but 'net

Or something like that :-)

Ultimately, the customer could avoid anything to do with Telkom in its entirety.
 
moggie said:
No, it won't. It would make them leaner and stronger as they would then concentrate on being a pure network provider and then they could dabble in the retail sector if they want to...

Their biggest cost (and loss) component of their business is the local loop.
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Then .. in a puff of logic ..., why don't Telkom do it ???? :mad:
 
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