iPhone 5s officially unveiled

[genetic]

Siri was only available for the 4s when that came out and it gradually got disseminated to the rest of their hardware. This isn't just a software feature they can turn off and on. It looks like quite a sophisticated piece of tech.

Siri is purely software - there is no hardware component. The reason it's only on the 4S and up is because it requires the faster processing power the 4S had... It's quite resource intensive.

Edit: Found this:

"The Siri software needs to cache data, needs to access a big data set at wide bandwidth, and needs a big processor to crunch all of the numbers. When we originally released Siri for the iPhone 3GS, we had to perform all kinds of optimizations and shortcuts to get it to work efficiently. All I can say is that it will likely run much better on a faster phone."

http://www.informationweek.com/pers...-voice-assistant-to-be-world-changi/231700133

 

[JStrike]

Siri is purely software - there is no hardware component. The reason it's only on the 4S and up is because it requires the faster processing power the 4S had... It's quite resource intensive.

Edit: Found this:



http://www.informationweek.com/pers...-voice-assistant-to-be-world-changi/231700133

Siri was most certainly hardware based. It needed specific types of microphones.
You could use Cydia to hack it into older models, and it worked, but it worked badly in comparison to the 4S

 

[genetic]

Siri was most certainly hardware based. It needed specific types of microphones.
You could use Cydia to hack it into older models, and it worked, but it worked badly in comparison to the 4S

Citation needed.

 

[Maverick Jester]

Siri was most certainly hardware based. It needed specific types of microphones.
You could use Cydia to hack it into older models, and it worked, but it worked badly in comparison to the 4S

Citation needed.

Siri is hardware resource-intensive software, therefore you are both correct?

 

[cerebus]

Siri is purely software - there is no hardware component. The reason it's only on the 4S and up is because it requires the faster processing power the 4S had... It's quite resource intensive.

Edit: Found this:

Eh sorry what I meant by 'this' is 'fingerprint sensor', not Siri.

 

[[)roi(]]

Read much?

Only the intellectual bits...

But can it deal with snot?

Lol. I'd hate to see your phone

 

[BeVonk!]

[)roi(],

By reading I mean the works of authors like Evgeny Morozov (for example). Get to know the deeper (and darker) side of technology and where humanity is heading. Morozov's "To Save Everything Click Here" will be a good start as it is fresh from the oven. And if you are willing to read it get the printed hardcopy edition as that would be fitting for such a work.

One must get to see the big picture to understand the small pictures. One will only appreciate the risks and dangers when the big picture is clear.

 

[[)roi(]]

[)roi(],

By reading I mean the works of authors like Evgeny Morozov (for example). Get to know the deeper (and darker) side of technology and where humanity is heading. Morozov's "To Save Everything Click Here" will be a good start as it is fresh from the oven. And if you are willing to read it get the printed hardcopy edition as that would be fitting for such a work.

One must get to see the big picture to understand the small pictures. One will only appreciate the risks and dangers when the big picture is clear.

Nope haven't read much of anything along those lines; I'll give it a try, thanks for the suggestion.

I tend to not worry too much about the humanity aspects of technology as it pertains to things like privacy (re it's insignificance in the greater problem). Consider that we'll long outstrip the earth's resource capacity before any of that -- our biggest challenge -- the human plague.

 

[[)roi(]]

It's a deterrent but not as much as people think. The checks that they do will be on the weak side in order to prevent locking people out of their phone which means that the false positives will probably be about 1-2 in 100. It would not be tough for a criminal to walk through a township getting people to try and unlock the phone. The odds are about 10% that one of the people in the syndicate would be able to unlock the phone if the syndicate included 10 people.

Missed this one.

Don't agree; their checks are solid (I've done many tests + it would be silly for a large actively media tracked corporate to do a 2nd rate job with something like this -- maps would be a bad example).

To reiterate the iOS7 changes ensure that no restore or activation is allowed if "find my iPhone" is already active; at least not without a prior deactivation on the device.

This of course doesn't mean that it won't ever be deactivated down the road with some form of jailbreak utility; I just personally don't believe the active iPhone development community will be encouraging the development of such tools; especially something that is valuable to even the jailbreakers (i.e. invalidation of the theft benefit)

For now I'm right (re it being an active deterrent), but you're welcome to let me know when that's not the case i.e. when the tools to bypass Apple's theft prevention are accessible to anyone.

 

[JimboBob]

"maps would be a good example"

Fixed that for you

 

[Abe]

Don't agree; their checks are solid (I've done many tests + it would be silly for a large actively media tracked corporate to do a 2nd rate job with something like this -- maps would be a bad example).

To reiterate the iOS7 changes ensure that no restore or activation is allowed if "find my iPhone" is already active; at least not without a prior deactivation on the device.

This of course doesn't mean that it won't ever be deactivated down the road with some form of jailbreak utility; I just personally don't believe the active iPhone development community will be encouraging the development of such tools; especially something that is valuable to even the jailbreakers (i.e. invalidation of the theft benefit)

For now I'm right (re it being an active deterrent), but you're welcome to let me know when that's not the case i.e. when the tools to bypass Apple's theft prevention are accessible to anyone.

It has nothing to do with them doing a good or bad job. It is how biometrics work. I have done a lot of work in the field. The problem with biometrics is that of False Acceptance Rates (FAR's) and False Rejection Rates (FRR's). With something like an iPhone, you have to err on the FAR side because stopping some poor soul from accessing their phone is likely to seriously P them off. These rates also change over time depending on various factors so testing a second print immediately after capturing the finger print is normally quite good. Testing 2 months later normally fares far worse. What you normally get from the better algorithms is speed rather than far better accuracy. Obviously the better algorithms will include better accuracy but not to the extent that the iPhone would suddenly work better than security systems to places such as NASA.

 

[[)roi(]]

It has nothing to do with them doing a good or bad job. It is how biometrics work. I have done a lot of work in the field. The problem with biometrics is that of False Acceptance Rates (FAR's) and False Rejection Rates (FRR's). With something like an iPhone, you have to err on the FAR side because stopping some poor soul from accessing their phone is likely to seriously P them off. These rates also change over time depending on various factors so testing a second print immediately after capturing the finger print is normally quite good. Testing 2 months later normally fares far worse. What you normally get from the better algorithms is speed rather than far better accuracy. Obviously the better algorithms will include better accuracy but not to the extent that the iPhone would suddenly work better than security systems to places such as NASA.

Ok my bad in that case; thought you were on about "find my iphone" which just to confirm is completely separate to touch ID.

The link with device access and App purchases is btw only for convenience sake.

With regards to the accuracy of finger prints I would imagine that based on Apple's past principles they would have taken the road least tread.

The A7 processor leans towards them needing significant extra CPU power; I imagine much to facilitate this. Most biometric devices in my experience sacrifice accuracy by way of supporting cheaper (less powerful) processors to maintain decent margins i.e. Cost determines level of accuracy (best accuracy given CPU limits); something of which Apple is rarely accused.

Well either way time will tell who is right -- many will put this to the test, to be the one who was able to defeat something Apple.

 

[Abe]

The A7 processor leans towards them needing significant extra CPU power; I imagine much to facilitate this. Most biometric devices in my experience sacrifice accuracy by way of supporting cheaper (less powerful) processors to keep decent margins i.e. Cost determines accuracy; something of which Apple is rarely accuses.

We have been able to run a full AFIS with 65000 fingerprints on an old custom mobile device running Windows CE. It was a bit slow but could match a fingerprint in about 8 seconds. Minutia comparisons are very quick. The processor won't help that much unless they keep a huge number of copies of a persons fingerprint but that would require the person to scan their fingerprint a large number of times while registering. The FAR and FRR is a problem with the underlying technology. Still, the chance of someone unlocking your phone is probably just under 1 in 100 so it's more of a deterrent than not having one in. I just wouldn't rely on it to prevent someone from accessing your phone.

Just to give you an idea how fast fingerprint matching can be. In some of our installations we were able to match about 100k fingerprints per second on a single powerful desktop PC. There are systems out there that can match must faster than that. When dealing with a large scale AFIS, those things need to check a fingerprint against a database of fingers that are, in some cases, 100+ million in size. It has to be fast to handle those sorts of numbers. A 1:1 comparison where you know the person and are trying to check if it's them is trivial.

 

[[)roi(]]

We have been able to run a full AFIS with 65000 fingerprints on an old custom mobile device running Windows CE. It was a bit slow but could match a fingerprint in about 8 seconds. Minutia comparisons are very quick. The processor won't help that much unless they keep a huge number of copies of a persons fingerprint but that would require the person to scan their fingerprint a large number of times while registering. The FAR and FRR is a problem with the underlying technology. Still, the chance of someone unlocking your phone is probably just under 1 in 100 so it's more of a deterrent than not having one in. I just wouldn't rely on it to prevent someone from accessing your phone.

Just to give you an idea how fast fingerprint matching can be. In some of our installations we were able to match about 100k fingerprints per second on a single powerful desktop PC. There are systems out there that can match must faster than that. When dealing with a large scale AFIS, those things need to check a fingerprint against a database of fingers that are, in some cases, 100+ million in size. It has to be fast to handle those sorts of numbers. A 1:1 comparison where you know the person and are trying to check if it's them is trivial.

Yes we agree most current biometric technology is a set of compromises; in my experience (similar to yours) accuracy varies quite a bit when manufacturers balance acceptable compromises vs. affordability.

Where we disagree is that you assume Apple has followed everyone else's example; history shows that this would be a bad assumption. Just saying that if they're doing things differently, then the added CPU power could account for that.

Anyway it's all very much conjecture now (no one outside of Apple has had a chance to examine this); let's rather wait for sites like Anandtech to do an in-depth analysis on the quality, accuracy, ...

 

[cerebus]

http://www.quora.com/Apple-Secure-Enclave/What-is-Apple’s-new-Secure-Enclave-and-why-is-it-important

Here's a great article with some insight into the security features. It seems like they're putting the fingerprint and authentication into an isolated component or enclave of the A7 soc. if that's true it's a very ambitious and long term plan.

 

[cerebus]

And reviews and benchmarks coming in. 5c is pretty much identical to the 5 as expected. 5s is crazy fast.
CPU
GPU

Pretty much the fastest mobile device on the market. It comes close to Bay Trail scores.

 

[sand_man]

Impressive!!!

Now make a 5" version and let the jailbreak live and we're in!!

As much as I am loving my S4 it lacks the polish of an iPhone. Little nuances are starting to creep in and I'm starting to hanker for the predictability and stability of an iPhone.

4" screens and zero customization is simply not going to cut it though. Not being able to tweak and mod this beast of a 5s would be a tragedy.

 

[cerebus]

Impressive!!!

Now make a 5" version and let the jailbreak live and we're in!!

Oh you know...the jailbreaking will happen whether they 'let it live' or not . I'm guessing the larger screen (maybe 4.7"?) will happen this time next year only.

As much as I am loving my S4 it lacks the polish of an iPhone. Little nuances are starting to creep in and I'm starting to hanker for the predictability and stability of an iPhone.

Yea that's what got to me eventually as well. Not being able to find a single really great music player that I could sync and manage all of my content on for instance.

4" screens and zero customization is simply not going to cut it though. Not being able to tweak and mod this beast of a 5s would be a tragedy.

I'm quite happy to stick with a smaller screen. There's tradeoffs on both ends. The big screen fundies, for all the valid points, don't really acknowledge the inconvenience factor that comes with a 5" screen. Trying to use it as a camera, one-handedly, as an music player esp in the gym/running, is an exercise in frustration. I guess that's all the 'casual user' stuff but then I'm happy to classify myself as a casual user if that's what it means.

I reckon the MotoX size would good if they were going bigger. Sort of 4.7" screen with a much thinner bezel to compensate.

 

[sand_man]

Yea that's what got to me eventually as well. Not being able to find a single really great music player that I could sync and manage all of my content on for instance.

You didn't look hard enough!! Poweramp and NRG Player are just 2 pretty awesome ones. There others. In fact for me so far that's been the huge advantage of Android so far!! CHOICES!!! Man oh man it's remarkable!! Having said that the default Apple apps have always IMHO been superb.

I'm quite happy to stick with a smaller screen. There's tradeoffs on both ends. The big screen fundies, for all the valid points, don't really acknowledge the inconvenience factor that comes with a 5" screen. Trying to use it as a camera, one-handedly, as an music player esp in the gym/running, is an exercise in frustration. I guess that's all the 'casual user' stuff but then I'm happy to classify myself as a casual user if that's what it means.

I've never been a fan of anything over 4" but live with a 4.99" screen for a while and you soon realize the impracticality of it is far outweighed by the benefits. You'd be amazed how quickly you become accustomed to a bigger screen. I finally get how Samsung can keep increasing screen size and people can keep on buying it. You acclimatize to 5" and then 5.3" doesn't seem like that much of a jump, acclimatize to a 5.3" and then a 5.7" doesn't seem like that much of a jump.

Sure, 4" to 5" is massive and goes well beyond Apple's ergonomic limit for a handset but once you accept that you working on a device beyond that ergonomic comfort zone you get used to it and will end up loving the extra real estate...

I also use mine in the gym but with a pair of bluetooth headphones so the phone, when I'm running, is on the treadmill and not me, same when I use the stationery bike or cross-trainer.

 

[cerebus]

You didn't look hard enough!! Poweramp and NRG Player are just 2 pretty awesome ones. There others. In fact for me so far that's been the huge advantage of Android so far!! CHOICES!!! Man oh man it's remarkable!! Having said that the default Apple apps have always IMHO been superb.

I did, I did. Actually if it was just about music playing I'd have been well off with Google Play. But I've got a pretty big range of audio and that's where I struggled. I need to manage bookmarks, audiobooks, ministry messages, podcasts, - and preferably in one app that preferably also can do desktop syncing that also preferably looks good and works seamlessly with all facets of the phone - lockscreen, widgets, etc. There's apps that can do parts of that, but none that can really manage it all in one package. I managed to make it more or less work after a lot of effort with iSyncr+rocket player but then broke it again and then just wasn't up to the las of it all. I've got increasingly less patience with things that don't work as they should though these days.

I've never been a fan of anything over 4" but live with a 4.99" screen for a while and you soon realize the impracticality of it is far outweighed by the benefits. You'd be amazed how quickly you become accustomed to a bigger screen. I finally get how Samsung can keep increasing screen size and people can keep on buying it. You acclimatize to 5" and then 5.3" doesn't seem like that much of a jump, acclimatize to a 5.3" and then a 5.7" doesn't seem like that much of a jump.

Like I say this is an area where Apple is wrong and needs to step up their ranges to accommodate people like you who just really want that bigger size and are frustrated that Apple aren't offering it. It's partly arrogance and partly because they straitjacketed themselves with the way iOS handles PPI's. The same reason they brought out the iPad Mini in 1024, because that's all iOS could manage.