Is it brain drain or brain exchange?

Skinner said:
And if you are really clever, and with some lucky circumstances, you can still make a very nice life for yourself in SA, with low crime risk, good money, low living costs, friends, family, all you will get and won't get overseas (with the exception of the first two).

In a nutshell, how to live a good life in SA:
1) Career: be in the right industry: engineering, IT, medical, etc.
2) Residential: Western Cape still FTW.
3) Stay as much as possible out of debt. Interest rates are rising.
4) Enjoy life. Live close to the beach. Enjoy your friends and family.
5) Kids: put them in a good school and send them to a good university.

Quite simple, really.

The situation may change after a few years, making 1-5 above more difficult, but what prevents you from leaving then and not now? Your age maybe, but you will have more career experience then, so your entry into the overseas job market will be even easier than what it would be now.
Click to expand...

If you're forced to leave when things get even worse it'll be much more difficult financially, you'll have less time to earn money on the other side etc. Obviously there's also the risk from crime of continuing to live here.
 
alanf85 said:
My sister was determined to come back but I warned her. Within a month or two of being back she'd made up her mind to return to the U.K. Couldn't believe how far this place had gone down the toilet in 2 years. I guess we don't notice as much with a gradual decline as every day passes . Anyway she's been in the U.K for 18 months now and has not mentioned moving back again.
Click to expand...

18 months?
Give it a bit more time...
 
It's not surprising that foreigners don't mind coming here. Right now the quality of life in South Africa isn't bad. Even more so if you don't personally know anyone who has been impacted by crime.

The problem is that South Africa has always had a far larger cloud over its future than most other countries. If you live in the UK you can't even imagine things going "wrong" to the extent that South Africans can. It's perfectly possible that things will just get better, but that's a risk that's much harder to take when you have no options. If you're foreign you just hop on the plane and go back to your home country. If you're a local you'll probably be stuck with the exits jammed from everyone else trying to leave.

So it's much easier for foreigners coming here to be positive because they don't have to base their decisions on the future. They can just see pretty beaches and come here while the goings good. On the otherhand local young people are forced to make choices based on what they think will happen over the next 5/10/20 years. If they get it wrong they'll be stuck, and be too old to get a foreign migrant visa.
 
Syndyre said:
If you're forced to leave when things get even worse it'll be much more difficult financially, you'll have less time to earn money on the other side etc. Obviously there's also the risk from crime of continuing to live here.
Click to expand...

There are many towns along the Garden Route, for instance, where I can guarantee you your changes of being killed/raped/robbed are, relative to rest of SA, minimal... or even less than in London.

I will go and install telephone systems in Stilbaai, for a job, and no-one will harm me. Plus live the easy life as a bonus.

Go get a job there, go live there... just do it.
 
km2 said:
It's not surprising that foreigners don't mind coming here. Right now the quality of life in South Africa isn't bad. Even more so if you don't personally know anyone who has been impacted by crime.

The problem is that South Africa has always had a far larger cloud over its future than most other countries. If you live in the UK you can't even imagine things going "wrong" to the extent that South Africans can. It's perfectly possible that things will just get better, but that's a risk that's much harder to take when you have no options. If you're foreign you just hop on the plane and go back to your home country. If you're a local you'll probably be stuck with the exits jammed from everyone else trying to leave.

So it's much easier for foreigners coming here to be positive because they don't have to base their decisions on the future. They can just see pretty beaches and come here while the goings good. On the otherhand local young people are forced to make choices based on what they think will happen over the next 5/10/20 years. If they get it wrong they'll be stuck, and be too old to get a foreign migrant visa.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Skinner said:
There are many towns along the Garden Route, for instance, where I can guarantee you your changes of being killed/raped/robbed are, relative to rest of SA, minimal... or even less than in London.

I will go and install telephone systems in Stilbaai, for a job, and no-one will harm me. Plus live the easy life as a bonus.

Go get a job there, go live there... just do it.
Click to expand...

There definitely are options like that, it all depends on what you want, which is different for everyone.
 
Skinner said:
There are many towns along the Garden Route, for instance, where I can guarantee you your changes of being killed/raped/robbed are, relative to rest of SA, minimal... or even less than in London.
Click to expand...

You right actually. WP is a nice place! But for the time being, Joburg is so much fun!:D
 
I'm staying - nothing beats lazing on the grass lawn in front of the Aula on a hot summer day :D
 
Syndyre said:
Exactly.



There definitely are options like that, it all depends on what you want, which is different for everyone.
Click to expand...

For sure.
All I'm saying is, you need to consider YOUR personal situation. This blanket "all need to leave SA now" cries I often here make no sense for many people.
 
Skinner said:
For sure.
All I'm saying is, you need to consider YOUR personal situation. This blanket "all need to leave SA now" cries I often here make no sense for many people.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I think the key is to actually consider it though, not just make a decision based on hope/faith, whatever it may be.
 
Skinner said:
There are many towns along the Garden Route, for instance, where I can guarantee you your changes of being killed/raped/robbed are, relative to rest of SA, minimal... or even less than in London.

I will go and install telephone systems in Stilbaai, for a job, and no-one will harm me. Plus live the easy life as a bonus.

Go get a job there, go live there... just do it.
Click to expand...

Ten years ago I would have agreed with the idea "agh, if things go pear-shaped we just head off to a small town and live out the rest of our days leading a nice simple life". I would have thought that nothing could mess that up.

Luckily Mugabe came along and showed us that even the "simple rural life" is NOT guaranteed. Mistakes on a national level can impact you even in small communities. This is what pushes me firmly in favour of making sure you have options open for both the small rural town within South Africa, but also to be able to exit South Africa. Sure go live in the Garden Route now, but keep your options open. The easiest way to increase your options is to have a foreign passport, and the easiest time to get a foreign passport is when you're young.
 
km2 said:
Ten years ago I would have agreed with the idea "agh, if things go pear-shaped we just head off to a small town and live out the rest of our days leading a nice simple life". I would have thought that nothing could mess that up.

Luckily Mugabe came along and showed us that even the "simple rural life" is NOT guaranteed. Mistakes on a national level can impact you even in small communities. This is what pushes me firmly in favour of making sure you have options open for both the small rural town within South Africa, but also to be able to exit South Africa. Sure go live in the Garden Route now, but keep your options open. The easiest way to increase your options is to have a foreign passport, and the easiest time to get a foreign passport is when you're young.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what I've done.
 
10 leave 3 return
20 leave 6 return
40 leave 12 return

No brain drain :D
 
Slooth said:
10 leave 3 return
20 leave 6 return
40 leave 12 return

No brain drain :D
Click to expand...

I can only speak from my own experience, but:
We have 40+ friends who have left SA, two of those have returned.
Of the remaining friends and family, one couple is well into their emmigration paperwork - probably be leaving within two months. We have a few things left to do still and then will be gone, as well.

I have this feeling that the "repatriation companies" have some sort of "special dispensation" in terms of AA. They are "allowed" to employ whites so as to "get them back" and in this way artificially produce better results. The fact that I, as a senior experienced IT developer, am told to "not bother to apply" BEFORE my CV is even looked at, says to me that must be the case. I can fully accept if I am rejected AFTER my CV is looked at, since this could be argued as being a "handy excuse to give to white candidates that are not worthy".
 
They don't say whether the immigrants qualify as AA/BEE candidates. That is an important factor. The government does not seem to mind foreigners counting towards AA targets.
 
And to add: I do not know one skilled computer programmer nor engineer in SA who is without a job.
Click to expand...

A world of difference between having a job, and having the job you deserve.
I could easily get a junior / mid level position in some small company somewhere and then "have a job". But as soon as I try for a senior position at a large company (ie one with good pay and good benefits), my CV is not even accepted to look at.
 
Moederloos said:
A world of difference between having a job, and having the job you deserve.
I could easily get a junior / mid level position in some small company somewhere and then "have a job". But as soon as I try for a senior position at a large company (ie one with good pay and good benefits), my CV is not even accepted to look at.
Click to expand...

And how many times did this happen to you?
 
Skinner said:
And how many times did this happen to you?
Click to expand...

I posted all that further back.
But 4 times in the last month.

EDIT: My wife is interviewing for new staff now at her company - a major listed company. She was told to "throw away" all the CVs of white applicants.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X