Is it really that bad in SA?

If you live in a good neighbourhood in Cape Town and have a good income or financial resources, you can live a fantastic lifestyle here that would be hard to match anywhere else.

Having said that, your kids prospects regarding tertiary education and any kind of future career are declining daily, there is zero social security safety net, ever increasing crime, ever increasing anti-white rhetoric and a highly uncertain political future.

If I was single or didn't plan on having kids and financially secure, living in CT would be a no-brainer, so long as there is an exit strategy if things go really FUBAR. If I had a family, forget it, not worth it.
 
Doesn't sound like OP has much of a choice anyway so its a moot discussion.

I certainly wouldn't return - strikes me as a terrible strategic move. Then again very personal & situation dependent question....
 
To the OP. Answer this, would you like to move to another sub-Saharan African country? Zaire, Congo, Chad, Burundi? Because South Africa is well on its way to becoming just another African country. We used to see ourselves as completely separate, a shining beacon of light on a dark continent. There was the rest of Africa, and then there was us.

This is no longer the case. We are slowly but surely on our way to becoming just another African state. Sure, right now, things aren't as bad as some people say, and you can still have a very high quality of life here. But what is the trajectory? Think long term. If we extend the current trends, where do we end up in 30 years?

Our education system is a complete failure, which means that we have a generation of youngsters that are destined for poverty and despair. Education is the only missing factor in conquering our vast levels of inequality and unemployment, but there are no signs of this being addressed or prioritized.

Our tertiary institutions have exploded into anarchy, not so much because of high fees, but the need to 'Africanise' and 'Decolonise' our varsities. These are veiled words for basically removing any white influence or western standards. So give it another 5-10 years, and our varsities will be on par with our schooling system. Everyone will have a degree, but the degree itself will be worth toilet paper.

We have a majority voting populous, that have no problem with putting incompetent, uneducated and blatantly corrupt leaders in power. They will not even consider a black leader from an opposition party, even if he appears to be the next Obama. Instead they would rather vote for dumb and dumber (Zuma & Malema)

The most ominous sign for me is the chorus of hatred for whites, and anything perceived to be white. Go look at the 18 and 19 year olds sitting on student bodies at universities. Guys that never experienced apartheid. And irrespective of political affiliations, they seem to be united with their common hatred for the white man. The drums are growing louder and louder for land, employment, businesses and property to be taken forcefully from whites. Either by means of violence, or by means of legislation.

We have seen this movie play out right before our eyes in Zimbabwe, we know how it ends, but this doesn't seem to matter much to the people.

Between the militant unions, the SACP influence and increasing marxist and leftist leaning ANC and EFF the country has no prospects for growth. The NDP is this document that gets talked about often, but we have no real intention of ever implementing it. In reality, business is seen as the enemy by all the prior mentioned parties. Domestic businesses are sitting on record levels of cash, and simply don't invest it here as they have zero confidence about the future prospects. How will foreigners invest, if the locals wont even do it?

It comes down to the fact that we aren't planting any seeds for a future harvest. In the last five years, only the most ignorant libtards have good things to say about South Africa's future prospects. The decline has been rapid since the Zuma administration, and it feels like it is only accelerating. We lurch from one crisis to the next as a nation.

Life is treacherous enough as it is. Why move to a country where the country's future itself is uncertain?
 
Doesn't sound like OP has much of a choice anyway so its a moot discussion.

I certainly wouldn't return - strikes me as a terrible strategic move. Then again very personal & situation dependent question....

He says he can look at Canada, but the OP simply sounds like he has decided not to return and is simply seeking affirmation, of which the hoi polloi of myBB are very good at providing.
 
Methinks the lala landers are either very very well off and have not experienced much real crime (due to being that well off) or suffer ostrich syndrome. This place really is the shytehole it is and I would never come back to live. Hell, even coming back to holiday would take serious thinking.

lalala
 
I
For the 2014/15 period in Bellville/Bellville South
- 15 murders
- 28 attempted murders
- 626 cases of aggravated robbery
- 93 sex crimes
- 1205 residential burglaries

Yep, very safe.

More here.
in fairness [-]Cape Town[/-] Murder Capital is a special case.
 
Each to their own.

I doubt I'd come back. I've lived in 3 countries now and I'll be first to admit that there are benefits to SA.

One needs to understand what "Quality of Life" means.

In Europe you work harder, you work longer, you live in a smaller place, you drive a smaller car, and you don't eat as lavishly as you do in SA. So on first glance quality of life in SA is muuuuch higher...until you look outside your house. No crime, clean and free hospitals, working roads, public transit which even the wealthy use, a stable and effective government, and life means something.

Unfortunately you need to have lived in a different place to realize what's wrong and right about SA. Otherwise you're the frog slowly boiling in the pot.

So yeah, decide what works for you and go for it.
 
The most ominous sign for me is the chorus of hatred for whites, and anything perceived to be white. Go look at the 18 and 19 year olds sitting on student bodies at universities. Guys that never experienced apartheid. And irrespective of political affiliations, they seem to be united with their common hatred for the white man. The drums are growing louder and louder for land, employment, businesses and property to be taken forcefully from whites. Either by means of violence, or by means of legislation.

We have seen this movie play out right before our eyes in Zimbabwe, we know how it ends, but this doesn't seem to matter much to the people.

Between the militant unions, the SACP influence and increasing marxist and leftist leaning ANC and EFF the country has no prospects for growth. The NDP is this document that gets talked about often, but we have no real intention of ever implementing it. In reality, business is seen as the enemy by all the prior mentioned parties. Domestic businesses are sitting on record levels of cash, and simply don't invest it here as they have zero confidence about the future prospects. How will foreigners invest, if the locals wont even do it?

It comes down to the fact that we aren't planting any seeds for a future harvest. In the last five years, only the most ignorant libtards have good things to say about South Africa's future prospects. The decline has been rapid since the Zuma administration, and it feels like it is only accelerating. We lurch from one crisis to the next as a nation.

Life is treacherous enough as it is. Why move to a country where the country's future itself is uncertain?

There is it!
 
Yeah, I wouldn't even think of coming back if I was already abroad. More to OP's situation, though. I wouldn't want to live in Dubai or anywhere in the ME for an extended period of time. So since you're already used to being expats - go somewhere else that you think you'll adjust best in.

I find it the whole 'all places have their problems' argument to be quite disingenuous, tbh. All problems aren't the same and our capacity to deal with them aren't either. I can deal with slightly higher food prices. I can't deal with getting stabbed or shot.

Another factor that's a bit less tangible but very real is the mental prison we end up living in as a result of our circumstances. We built physical prisons to live in, but end up cordoning off our lives mentally, too, out of fear.

Doesn't have to be like that. Especially since we're living in a time with the greatest global mobility.

And I simply don't see much of a silver lining for SA at the moment, economically or politically. So yes, we're experiencing an economic downturn along with the rest of the developing world, but our government isn't particularly interested in addressing it, and there's no real reason to think they will be any time soon.

With the reality of skyrocketing inflation, dreary economic prospects generally and an incredibly volatile political climate, I don't see why I should try to 'stick it out' here, considering the first chance at changing national government is only in 2019, and it doesn't look like any real change will be coming then either. If it does, the EFF looks most likely to have a surge in support, and they'll be even worse than the current lot in charge.

No thanks.
 
Methinks the lala landers are either very very well off and have not experienced much real crime (due to being that well off) or suffer ostrich syndrome. This place really is the shytehole it is and I would never come back to live. Hell, even coming back to holiday would take serious thinking.

it is a shytehole, but it's considerably less of a shyte hole than Dubai is, and the way people are going on about this country you'd swear we were dodging bullets every day and being kidnapped every month.

maybe both sides have unrealistic views of the country, and it's up to them to come back and see for themselves. it's not like they CAN stay in Dubai so they have to go somewhere, so they might as well be prepared

nobody is ignoring the problems the country has, yet after bitching and whining about what a **** country we live in, people can go about their happy lives until the get the opportunity to bitch again
 
Each to their own.

I doubt I'd come back. I've lived in 3 countries now and I'll be first to admit that there are benefits to SA.

One needs to understand what "Quality of Life" means.

In Europe you work harder, you work longer, you live in a smaller place, you drive a smaller car, and you don't eat as lavishly as you do in SA. So on first glance quality of life in SA is muuuuch higher...until you look outside your house. No crime, clean and free hospitals, working roads, public transit which even the wealthy use, a stable and effective government, and life means something.

Unfortunately you need to have lived in a different place to realize what's wrong and right about SA. Otherwise you're the frog slowly boiling in the pot.

So yeah, decide what works for you and go for it.

It's all relative. I was chatting to a Kenyan guy a few weeks back. He's lived all over Africa and he told me flat out we guys don't know how good we've got it here, especially in Cape Town.

However, things in SA aren't great atm. Politically SA is on a knife edge and local elections and how the ANC react will indicate where we go in the future. Cape Town public transport is a mess atm due to railway employees who are striking and vandalising the train lines. Crime is still an issue depending on where you live. Petrol prices are a bit borked. We still don't have Fibre in my neighbourhood!

On the plus side, Rand is improving. It's still possible to get work if you have decent qualifications. Friend of mine who has a masters in Engineering found a job within a few weeks after he decided to drop his PHD. Even with the increasing food costs, it's not too bad (unless you're already living close to your financial limit).

If you can hold off coming back for at least this year, I would do that.
 
We are getting our stuff in order to return to SA after working (not immigrating) overseas for 16 years. We own a home in Cape Town and we are ready to come back...Now last night my mom sends me a long email telling us we should really think long and hard if we want to return. She says people are breaking down buildings, starting fires so that everyone comes down to their level and basically ruin the whole country. She said crime is terrible,food getting very expensive,monthly medical payment is a joke and that just buying meat has almost become unaffordable for the average South African. She said life is very hard in SA and people feel trapped.
On a side note...my mom tends to exaggerate a lot so that is why I am asking this forum for another point of view...Is it still good in SA or are we making a mistake? :confused: My husband is worried now after reading the email as my mom rarely emails....

Are you in Tableview?

Things are pretty grim here at the moment with the Dunoon protests, however I can tell you that its contained to Dunoon.

The surrounds are only affected through traffic and those who dare go in there when the sh1!ts going down.
 
SA has nothing going for it and will only decline as time goes by. You should consider staying there or moving elsewhere in the world. You are already abroad and you have a chance to make a better life for your kids.
 
Economically, if you can earn in something other than Rands, you would have to be an idiot not to do so. Economy is tanking badly atm, and that is before this year's load shedding starts.

Socially, crime is most likely to be more of a problem here than in the country you are living in. So by all means, if you want to increase the chances of you or your family getting hijacked/mugged/raped/killed by all means come back to South Africa.

Politically, to find for blame the above, the national government and leading political parties continue to treat white people as the source of all evil in the country. Nothing even gets done when a the president is blatant about it:
President Jacob Zuma said last week that black South Africans should vote for “black parties” to frustrate the motives of white voters. Zuma also said that black South Africans are poor because they have no land; most of it belongs to whites.

Would I deliberately move to a country where I am going to earn less, more likely to be a victim of crime and happen to be the scapegoat for every problem in the country. Well I am not an idiot. So no.
 
Probably the biggest problem coming down the pipe for South Africa at the moment is our inability to adequately transform our economy from being built on the resources and commodities.

How many people do the mines employ vs something like the communications companies? Those jobs are all going away in the near future and we already have such massive unemployment.
 
Economically, if you can earn in something other than Rands, you would have to be an idiot not to do so. Economy is tanking badly atm, and that is before this year's load shedding starts.

It's pretty easy to make good money here compared to overseas where it's highly competitive. I'm quite happy to stick around here making ZAR and investing it in currency hedged investments while the getting's good.
 
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If you live in a good neighbourhood in Cape Town and have a good income or financial resources, you can live a fantastic lifestyle here that would be hard to match anywhere else.

Having said that, your kids prospects regarding tertiary education and any kind of future career are declining daily, there is zero social security safety net, ever increasing crime, ever increasing anti-white rhetoric and a highly uncertain political future.

If I was single or didn't plan on having kids and financially secure, living in CT would be a no-brainer, so long as there is an exit strategy if things go really FUBAR. If I had a family, forget it, not worth it.

blerrie whites

Seriously?
 
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