LCD and Plasma Bargains

[Roman4604]

Only matters if you watch from up close and are anal about resolution.

Just your opinion, I can see the difference easily from 2-3m.

and handle motion artefacting of 1080i far better resulting in smoother picture with less motion judder.

Rubbish on both counts. The D450 has to do de-interlacing AND scaling, so will be far more prone to artifacting. And my experience with 4/5 series plasma is that they're also very prone to horizontal judder, I spot it every time I look at one.

You also forget the 47LK530 is a 100Hz set, so I doubt it will be inferior to the D450.

There is a reason why everyone who tests HD PVR/most sources (even 1080p) on entry plasma and entry LCD chooses plasma.

Yeah they're all from the visually impaired home.

Don't understand why you need to muddy the waters when the answer is perfectly simple.

Because you talk such utter rubbish here and try to pass it off as gospel. You create these myths that entry-level hd-ready 4 series plasma are better than almost anything the market, and for any application type.

 

[PostmanPot]

Perhaps others who've tested/owned Series 5 LCD and Series 4 plasma need to comment so you agree with the "gospel".

 

[ld13]

Makro Montagu Gardens Grand Opening Sale 26 October 2011 7AM

TV Specials [stock limited to]:

R4299 [600] Samsung 40" (102cm) Full HD LCD TV LA40D503
R1999 [500] Sinotec 32" (81cm) HD Ready LCD TV MP32HU32/U26
R3799 [500] Sinotec 40" (102cm) Full HD LCD TV STLCD-40KC70

R5799 [300] Samsung 40" (102cm) Full HD LED TV UA40D5000
R8799 [200] Samsung 46'' (117cm) Full HD LED TV UA46D5500

Full catalog: http://www.makro.co.za/live/click.p...content/1909/general-merchandise/&o=Item+1918

Edit: Valid from Wednesday 26 October to Sunday 30 October 2011

 

[Roman4604]

R8799 [200] Samsung 46'' (117cm) Full HD LED TV UA46D5500

Great price for this TV

 

[CarbonZA]

Plasma. Better colours/blacks/picture quality. Because it is bigger, it will offer a much better experience for TV and gaming. Handles gaming and HD PVR/DSTV better.

What's your viewing distance?

Around 4m. Will it make difference?

 

[PostmanPot]

Around 4m. Will it make difference?

For effect, I'll let Roman answer that one.

I recommend reading a bit from this post.

 

[Roman4604]

Around 4m. Will it make difference?

Depends on your eyesight and attention to detail, but 4m is starting to push the limits of percieving major differences between 1920x1080 vs 1366x768 res.

Still I just stood 4m back from my 46" flippling through the HD channels, and can still percieve many of hallmarks of a FHD picture e.g. fine detail of peoples facial features + hair, sharp/clear small writing, perfectly formed curved edges etc.

 

[PostmanPot]

Still I just stood 4m back from my 46" flippling through the HD channels, and can still percieve many of hallmarks of a FHD picture e.g. fine detail of peoples facial features + hair, sharp/clear small writing, perfectly formed curved edges etc.

No Roman, you are perceiving the hallmarks of a HD (720+ vertical lines) picture.

@CarbonZA: Some more easy reading from the experts - http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/ (and if you want - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080i).

9. Side by side, how do 720p and 1080p TVs match up in head-to-head tests?

We spend a lot of time looking at a variety of source material on a variety of TVs in our video lab here at CNET's offices in New York. When I wrote my original article over three years ago, many 1080p TVs weren't as sharp as they claimed to be on paper. By that, I mean a lot of older 1080p sets couldn't necessarily display all 2 million-plus pixels in the real world--technically, speaking, they couldn't "resolve" every line of a 1080i or 1080p test pattern.

That's changed in the last few years. Virtually all 1080p sets are now capable of fully resolving 1080i and 1080p material, though not every 1080p TV is created equal. As our resident video guru, Senior Editor David Katzmaier explains in his HDTV resolutions feature, Blu-ray serves up another video format, 1080p/24, and not every TV properly displays 1080p/24. The 24 refers to the true frame rate of film-based content, and displaying it in its native format is supposed to give you a picture exactly as the director intended you to see it (for a full explanation, click here).

Whether you're dealing with 1080p/24 or standard 1080p/60, doesn't alter our overall views about 1080p TVs. We still believe that when you're dealing with TVs 50 inches and smaller, the added resolution has only a very minor impact on picture quality. In our tests, we put 720p (or 768p) sets next to 1080p sets, then feed them both the same source material, whether it's 1080i or 1080p, from the highest-quality Blu-ray player. We typically watch both sets for a while, with eyes darting back and forth between the two, looking for differences in the most-detailed sections, such as hair, textures of fabric, and grassy plains. Bottom line: It's almost always very difficult to see any difference--especially from farther than 8 feet away on a 50-inch TV.

So basically this leaves us with 3 possibilities. Roman is either:

1. A super human with superior eyes than expert whose jobs are to analyse TVs

Or a combination of

2. Placebo effect
3. Sitting close than 2m

Anyway, at least he answered truthfully, so this is all you really need to know:

4m is starting to push the limits of percieving major differences between 1920x1080 vs 1366x768 res.

 

[Magandroid]

If you can afford the 51", then DO IT. I have a 50", and sit roughly 4m away, and i want bigger. It will freak you out the first week or so, due to it's size, but man it's worth it. I would suggest keeping roughly 3m from a 50", otherwise you get lost in the screen. Flippin awesome.

Truer word could not have been spoken. You were right about the size and freaking out the first week or so. I actually felt guilty because the size of screen made me feel like I was over-indulging. Everytime when I looked at the screen I felt like I had committed a sin but I guess I've now become used to sinning and crossed over to the darkside.

 

[PostmanPot]

:twisted:

 

[Roman4604]

No Roman, you are perceiving the hallmarks of a HD (720+ vertical lines) picture.

Not quite, I've done enough comparitive viewing of 1080i/1080p to know the picture I'm watching on my TV is superior to what a 51D450 is capable of. Even at 4m the difference in picture clarity, vividness and depth would be pretty apparent. But then the 46D6000 isnt an entry level model, so not really fair.

 

[PostmanPot]

I don't know whether to laugh, or cry with laughter.

Good night!

 

[RogueTr00per]

Samsung PS51D450 (51" plasma)

I'm pretty happy with my Samsung PS51D450. The Avatar 1080p rip i have is 16GB in size and looks amazing on it, tho granted it's being downscaled to 1366x768 and I'm not seeing it in all its glory but honestly I can't tell... unless someone wants to buy me a FHD tv to place next it? Other 1080p rips i have are maybe 9GB max and they don't look as awesome as Avatar. I think the loss in image quality for other movies i have is more to do with compression than the fact that the TV is only 720p capable.

Does anyone have any advice on lighting, where's the best place to position light sources? What type of lighting is best? I mainly notice reflections due to ambient lighting only in dark scenes. I also don't wanna cause any eyestrain so I don't want the room to be too dark.

edit: ito viewing distance, i actually like sitting 2m away to get lost in the screen as some ppl are warning against I do have the option of sitting 3.2m away as well.

 

[akescpt]

Around 4m. Will it make difference?

The further I get away from my 42' the sexier it gets

 

[Magandroid]

I came across this intereting article on about.com although I don't know when it was written though.


http://tv.about.com/od/hdtv/qt/720p1080i1080p.htm

Which HDTV Should You Buy: 720p, 1080i, 1080p?
From Matthew Torres, former About.com Guide

I get asked this question a lot. The simple answer is that 1080p can display the highest form high definition image to date. So, by default it is a better image than 720p or 1080i.

Not As Easy As 1080p

All things being considered equal then I would buy 1080p but it isn’t as simple as just buying 1080p and being done with it. There is so much more to consider than just native resolution. My advice is to take the native resolution into consideration but don't let that be the sole purpose for buying a HDTV. In other words, look beyond the 720p, 1080i and 1080p specifications.

Learn about the technology inside the TV and options it has. It is my opinion that you’ll be happier with a 720p or 1080i that has a great picture enhancement system than a 1080p HDTV with no picture enhancement.

TV is not 1080p

Most, if not all, broadcast and cable channels send a high definition signal in 720p or 1080i. A 1080p television might scale the image to 1080p but it isn’t a true 1080p image. This has to do with native resolution, which you might see in some TV specifications. For example, a TV with a 720p native resolution will receive a 1080i image and convert it to 720p.

Lack of programming being viewed in 1080p is the biggest issue right now with respect to 1080p televisions. However, the future will undoubtedly turn toward 1080p.

Movies in 1080p

Blu-ray disc players have 1080p capabilities now and TV Technology.com reports that the film industry I’ve read reports online about the film industry moving toward a 1080p production standard but this is still a work in progress.

1080p and Game Consoles

Sony is the leader in 1080p potential with the Playstation. XBOX 360 took a shot to the chin with the demise of HD-DVD so I expect it to take a while before they get with the Blu-ray camp. Still, most, if not all, games are not being produced in 1080p.

The Bottom Line

The bottom line is that a high definition image is better than a non-high definition image. While 1080p has the potential for producing a better picture than 1080i or 720p, the realism is that 1080p isn't really in the market yet as far as programming. This is a case of technology moving faster than the content producers.

Also, since the digital transition has been planned for the past decade or so the content producers have already invested in 720p and 1080i technology. To reinvest in 1080p would be a considerable expense and I don't think a lot of TV content producers will go that route. My hunch is that the film industry is better prepared for 1080p.

 

[Roman4604]

I came across this intereting article on about.com although I don't know when it was written though.

Does seem a little out of date.

Almost all HDTV broadcasting around the world uses the 1080i standard these days (incl our own MC), and there would be little incentive for them to move to 1080p. With 1080p broadcasters would incur double the bandwidth penality (per ch) with virtually no benefit to the end user.

The de-interlacing circuitry/routines (1080i -> 1080p) in modern TVs have reached a level of competence where the difference in PQ even with motion between 1080i & 1080p are virtually indistinguishable. I've confirmed this a few times for myself by flipping between a HDPVR @ 1080i50 and Bluray player (PS3) @ 1080p24 playing out the exact same movie.

 

[PostmanPot]

Yip I also got the feeling that it's outdated.

It's simple. If you have 1080p media you want to make full use of, and are able to sit close to your TV in accordance with the viewing distance-resolution conundrum, then get 1080p.*

If you don't have 1080p media, or not much of it, or you sit outside the viewing distance-resolution conundrum guidelines, then 720p is perfect.

At normal viewing distances 720p is favoured over 1080i because of the motion artefacting introduced with an interlaced image, as well as the fact that 720p has more vertical definition which is more important, as well as the fact that sometimes 1080i doesn't even fully utilise the physical width of *1920. So to sell HD PVR's 1080i to people who sit further than 2m+ from a 50" TV is mostly disingenuous. On modern entry LCD TVs, 40" - 46", motion judder/tearing is clearly visible from 2.5m+ viewing distance, and handling of high speed/motion is particularly bad. Neither of these are as evident on entry 720p plasma, which from 2.5m+ provides the same definition (due to the resolution-distance conundrum) but at a much higher picture quality (blacks, colours, etc).


*If you are overwhelmed by placebo effect, anal about every pixel only noticeable when 50cm from the TV, and not worried about poor motion handling, then you may need 1080p (entry LCD vs entry plasma).

[video=youtube;Z-JXfyvlPh0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-JXfyvlPh0[/video]

 

[Magandroid]

Sorry if the article was a bit out of date but I am still a noob to all of this. The posts in this forum has taught me a lot though, but if I read something somewhere, then this is a good place to get confirmation on an article. So thanks for all your input, that is why I posted it in the first place.

 

[Magandroid]

Can I ask this though. Are all blu-ray movies then 1080p format? I thought SA followed the interlaced format as opposed to the progressive scan format.

 

[Roman4604]

At normal viewing distances 720p is favoured over 1080i because of the motion artefacting introduced with an interlaced image

Nope, no motion artifacting on my 50Hz 40c530 at 1080i, only occasional ghosting on poor quality feeds. 200Hz 46D6000 is perfect at 1080i.

as well as the fact that 720p has more vertical definition which is more important

Wrong you still dont understand how interlacing works (we've been down this road many times before)

as well as the fact that sometimes 1080i doesn't even fully utilise the physical width of *1920.

Wrong, MC transmit at the full 1920 width

So to sell HD PVR's 1080i to people who sit further than 2m+ from a 50" TV is mostly disingenuous.

Thats your opinion, mine is that the quality/fidelity of 1080i is clearly evident on both my 40" LCD & 46" LED from 2-3m, and it closely matches that of 1080p Bluray.

On modern entry LCD TVs, 40" - 46", motion judder/tearing is clearly visible from 2.5m+ viewing distance, and handling of high speed/motion is particularly bad.

Again your opinion, my experience is that judder is far more prevelant on entry plasmas, the fast pixel responses are working against you here. An 50Hz LCD's slower responses will natually add some blur to fast motion, masking most judder. There's no hiding it on a plasma without motion compensation signal processing.

[video=youtube;Z-JXfyvlPh0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-JXfyvlPh0[/video]

Digging up this 4 year old clip again I see. None of the anomolies show in the is clip occur on my 40" (2010 model) or 46" (2011 model) at 1080i of my HDPVR.