[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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Abe said:
They can attach property to recover a debt and depending on the amount of that debt, it could mean that one has to sell their house.
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A judge will only allow them to sell your house when the value of your debt is almost in line with the value of your house.

They won't sell your 500k house if you own 50k or 100k, but if you start owning 200k they might consider it etc.

I know this because we are having an immense battling trying to reclaim 50k in levies from a guy living in a house to the value of 500k. He is refusing to pay, and no judge will allow us to sell his house to reclaim the levies. Not just yet anyway.
 
Just imagine the impact on SANRAL after the first year, and people have failed to pay. It would have to pay income tax on its accruals (being the tolls levied but not yet received) but it wouldn't physically have the cash yet.
 
garp said:
There is a special amendment to the SANRAL Act that makes you automatically liable by law if you use a toll road with no onus on them to send you invoices, etc (although they will be sending monthly invoices)

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They do not have to send invoices - the responsibility is on the motorist to determine what they owe and pay.
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There is no way that that is acceptable in law. That is in violation of the CPA, as I have mentioned on here before.
 
Garyvdh said:
The intended processes for prosecuting those who do not pay Gauteng e-tolls are unclear, Justice Project SA (JPSA) said on Friday.

This lack of clarity on the matter from the SA National Roads Agency Ltd (Sanral) and the transport department led to the public and the media approaching JPSA for this information, spokesman Howard Dembovsky said in a statement.

There had also been a "deafening silence" from the National Prosecuting Authority on the matter.

"Unfortunately, we have been unable to provide much more than an educated guess on this matter, since the intended prosecution of e-toll transgressions does not appear to be following the same procedures as the prosecution of other road traffic and toll transgressions..."

So far, only an undefined debt collection process prior to prosecution had been mentioned, Dembovsky said.

"Due to the unfortunate dissemination of confusing information we have been left with little choice but to instruct our attorneys to write to the relevant authorities to seek clarity on the matter..."

If this was not forthcoming by noon on Friday JPSA's attorneys would approach the high court for clarity.

The letter was addressed to Sanral CEO Nazir Alli, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters, Justice Minister Jeff Radebe, and National Director of Public Prosecutions Mxolisi Nxasana.

The letter asked for details of the exact legal and administrative processes that would be followed for the collection of e-tolls and against those who did not pay.

JPSA also wanted to know whether failure to buy an e-tag would be a criminal offence, whether such motorists would be arrested, and if so, what legislation backed this. In addition, whether conviction for not paying e-tolls could result in a prison sentence.

It also asked whether non-payment could result in motorists being blacklisted.

Last week, Peters announced that e-tolling on Gauteng highways would come into effect on December 3.

The move has sparked widespread opposition, with trade unions and political parties vowing to explore all possible avenues to resist e-tolling.


Source : Sapa /mjs/fg/jk
Date : 29 Nov 2013 08:09
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Would love to hear their replies.
 
Jola said:
SANRAL are not subject to most existing laws, AFAIK they have been excluded. For example, the CPA.
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They are only exempt from the national credit act afaik. They are violating CPA on so many levels and i expect a few court cases on this alone
 
blunomore said:
I am not holding my breath. I am relying on existing law to protect my rights.
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The CPA relies on the NCC, good luck on getting a reply from them. I've sent numerous complaints to their email address and I've never even received an acknowledgement. This government won't allow one function of the state to prevent another function of the state from collecting more money from the public.
 
Avis to profit from e-tolling?

Avis, a leading rent-a-car company in SA, has kitted its national fleet with e-tags. But what looks like tacit support for e-tolls is in fact an act of 'no choice', says CEO Keith Rankin.

Johannesburg - Avis Southern Africa might have acknowledged the "positive impact" of the Gauteng Freeway Programme on Tuesday but it in no ways means that it supports e-tolls despite fitting it's national fleet with e-tags.

However, while the rental company might be obeying the law, they're still pocketing the profits of customers who will be using the rental cars, even if there's a possibly justified answer.

Wheels24's question to Avis Southern Africa CEO Keith Rankin followed a line in a media release that said Avis would be charging the full toll rates despite the discount earned through its vehicles having e-tags..

In other words, was the company making a second operating profit by pocketing the sometimes large difference in rates?

Avis Southern Africa CEO Keith Rankin said: "We don't want to make money out of this, or rip anyone off, we only want to recover the costs of the severe impact e-tolls are going to have on the company.

"We have 25 000 cars in our national fleet, of which about 10 000 are in Gauteng. If we did the math at the maximum rate of R450 per car per month and had to foot the bill ourselves we would pay millions and the company would end up bankrupt.

"We can't charge our customers a daily surcharge because that would not be fair if the customer does not use the national highway while renting a vehicle."

Rankin said in a statement on Tuesday (Nov 26): "The introduction of e-tolls in Gauteng will be a new experience for us all but we have invested significantly in our systems and people to ensure that our customers' rental experience will continue to be as seamless as possible - they are our greatest asset."

Rankin told Wheels24's Janine-Lee Gordon: "Avis does not support e-tolls but we are in favour of the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP) to provide better roads for users. That means we're willing to pay for roads, we just don't agree that e-tolls is the right way to go about it."

Avis had installed e-tags in its national fleet of 25 000 cars and had developed the necessary IT systems to ensure that any e-toll fees incurred by its customers during the rental period will be included in their final invoice which will be available only two days after the vehicle is returned and would highlight the total e-toll amount, the company said.

The statement said: "Avis will charge the standard e-toll tariff per e-toll gantry, to a monthly maximum value of R450 as published in the Government Gazette. The standard tariff, which is higher than the tariff paid by registered e-tag users, is being charged to enable Avis to recover the costs of implementing systems and resources to manage e-toll compliance."

Rankin said Avis belonged to a group of shareholders and, as a company, Avis can't willingly and openly disobey the law. "That's why we've decided to be open and honest with the public and our customers."

When asked about the higher tariff rates, Rankin said: "On December 3 e-tolls are going to become a reality for people in Gauteng. We had a choice, we could have just kept quiet, but as a business we have to comply by the law. Right now we don't have any data. We have no idea how many of our customers will use the e-tolls and we're only dealing with the little information we have."

Rankin said that in a few months Avis would re-evaluate its data to see if it was overcharging or even undercharging customers (through the difference between their tag-reduced rates and the full rate being charged). He also said the discounted rate applied to registered users and that SANRAL would target the owner of the car going through the gantry for non-payments, not the driver, so his company needed a system to capture data to bill clients correctly.

Rankin also explained that some of the company's corporate clients paid their accounts every 30 to 60 days; e-toll bills had to be paid within seven.

The company, where Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) chairman Wayne Duvenage used to work, said it would continue to support upgrades to roads countrywide.

However, Avis is not the only rental company which has accepted e-tolls. Rankin said two of his biggest competitors had also gone this route but had perhaps decided to keep it low-key.

Wheels24 also asked another rental company the same questions posed to Rankin, but Hertz CEO Wils Raubenheimer chose to be less transparent and said: "We do not have any comment at this point in time and we will be providing our feedback via the Southern African Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association.''

Transport minister Dipuo Peters announced on Wednesday that e-tolling on Gauteng's highways would begin on December 3.

Duvenage, former CEO of Avis, said it was always going to be difficult for companies to defy e-tolls. If rental companies had to choose between a fuel levy or e-tolls, he was certain they would choose the fuel levy. "They are under pressure... so I don't blame them for not going against e-tolls," he said.

Duvenage resigned as Avis rent-a-car CEO in June 2013 but his relationship with the company remained strong.

Earlier in November 2013, the Democratic Alliance and Freedom Front Plus political parties announced they would each bring High Court applications to fight the constitutionality of e-tollingbill signed by the president, Jacob Zuma,in September 2013.

A legal challenge to e-tolling by Outa was dismissed by the Supreme Court of Appeal on October 9 2013.

- SAPA
 
Garyvdh said:
Wheels24's question to Avis Southern Africa CEO Keith Rankin followed a line in a media release that said Avis would be charging the full toll rates despite the discount earned through its vehicles having e-tags..

In other words, was the company making a second operating profit by pocketing the sometimes large difference in rates?

Avis Southern Africa CEO Keith Rankin said: "We don't want to make money out of this, or rip anyone off, we only want to recover the costs of the severe impact e-tolls are going to have on the company.
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That does not compute. You will be recouping all of your expenses by charging the exact e-tag rate and also capping the vehicle at R450. Anything over and above that is an extra source of income and is inexcusable (barring the slight cost increase of e-tag related admin at Avis). I don't for a second believe that you need to double the cost per gantry to cover the admin related costs. They also conveniently failed to mention what happens once the vehicle gets capped at R450, but the customers keep on paying... PROFIT!
 
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rakabos3 said:
They are only exempt from the national credit act afaik. They are violating CPA on so many levels and i expect a few court cases on this alone
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I agree and I am sure that their violation of the CPA will be taken to court.

Wyzak said:
The CPA relies on the NCC, good luck on getting a reply from them. I've sent numerous complaints to their email address and I've never even received an acknowledgement. This government won't allow one function of the state to prevent another function of the state from collecting more money from the public.
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I have sent quite a few complaints through to them on behalf of people and the response was a deafening silence!! I tried calling them and I got a reply to the effect that their number has changed - when I dial the new number, it is engaged - PERMANENTLY ENGAGED.

It is infuriating that there are so-called systems in place to assist people in protecting their rights, but those systems do not work. What is the point then?????

This will only lead to people taking the law into their own hands.
 
Jola said:
There was a post on that, somewhere on MBB. Maybe someone can remember where ?

The ANC have raped this country's legal system in order to get this through.
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It was me. It's only the NCA that doesn't apply to the levying of tolls.
 
blunomore said:
I agree and I am sure that their violation of the CPA will be taken to court.



I have sent quite a few complaints through to them on behalf of people and the response was a deafening silence!! I tried calling them and I got a reply to the effect that their number has changed - when I dial the new number, it is engaged - PERMANENTLY ENGAGED.

It is infuriating that there are so-called systems in place to assist people in protecting their rights, but those systems do not work. What is the point then?????

This will only lead to people taking the law into their own hands.
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It will be tested in court, the CPA i mean, so dont stress
 
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