[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[LazyLion]

This is the kind of info that supporters of etrolling need to understand

If only they had the mental capacity to understand words and sentences....

 

[nfbs]

The company doesn’t disclose margins for individual projects, Chief Executive Officer Georg Kapsch said at the press conference.

You only need one guess to know the project that will gives them the biggest profit.

 

[OMB]

If only they had the mental capacity to understand words and sentences....

yeah, I'd like to see saksak's view on this

 

[MartyMarts]

This is the kind of info that supporters of etrolling need to understand

I thought the ANC were the only benef... err, supporters of etolling?

 

[Nerfherder]

Kapsch are the people who are profiting from eTolling - and this is how much:


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...n-toll-road-revenue-boost-coming-in-july.html

Handy info that.

Should be fighting this in that country... not this one.

 

[Sinbad]

I thought the ANC were the only benef... err, supporters of etolling?

They were the short-term beneficiaries. IE - they received the bribes from Kapsch et al to get this contract in place.

 

[MartyMarts]

They were the short-term beneficiaries. IE - they received the bribes from Kapsch et al to get this contract in place.

So everybody wins ...except the people paying the etariffs.

 

[OMB]

can we get this merged into the e-tolling thread?

Not everyone may know who Kapsch is and might not read this thread based on its title

 

[Sinbad]

can we get this merged into the e-tolling thread?

Not everyone may know who Kapsch is and might not read this thread based on its title

Good point... I agree

 

[OMB]

Good point... I agree

shot

 

[TelkomUseless]

So everybody wins ...except the people paying the etariffs, people buying food, people that use any product/service that uses the toll roads

fixed.

 

[saksakgp]

yeah, I'd like to see saksak's view on this

My view is simple. I am not against this because I have always known about it and have never objected to it. It makes no sense to be against urban tolling simply because some profits will go to the people responsible for the tech. A huge chunk of the hundreds of billion that Eskom is spending has already gone to the people reponsible for the tech who are in Japan, nobody is complaining. You people should come clean by admitting that you are against e-tolls for two reasons:
1.) You don't want to pay extra R50 - R350 per month hence the call for fuel levy increase in hope of spreading this to the whole population thus decreasing the burden on you.
2.) You don't mind paying but you are just against it as a silly way to protest against the government.

 

[Sinbad]

My view is simple. I am not against this because I have always known about it and have never objected to it. It makes no sense to be against urban tolling simply because some profits will go to the people responsible for the tech. A huge chunk of the hundreds of billion that Eskom is spending has already gone to the people reponsible for the tech who are in Japan, nobody is complaining. You people should come clean by admitting that you are against e-tolls for two reasons:
1.) You don't want to pay extra R50 - R350 per month hence the call for fuel levy increase in hope of spreading this to the whole population thus decreasing the burden on you.
2.) You don't mind paying but you are just against it as a silly way to protest against the government.

You are incorrect.
I am against this for the following reasons:
1) etolls are a very inefficent way of collecting revenue for these roads. Fuel levy overhead is zero.
2) urban commute arterial roads should NOT be tolled when there are no practical alternatives available.
3) User pays - so make all the users pay - exemption for certain private businesses is unacceptable especially when many of these businesses operate on a cash basis and pay no income tax
4) We have already paid for road upgrades via the fuel levy and other taxes, but the government has appropriated these funds for other uses
5) The construction cost for the roads was far in excess of international norms, especially considering the quality of what was delivered.

There, I've come clean. Sorry you had to find out you were wrong in your generalisations and assumptions.

 

[LazyLion]

My view is simple. I am not against this because I have always known about it and have never objected to it. It makes no sense to be against urban tolling simply because some profits will go to the people responsible for the tech. A huge chunk of the hundreds of billion that Eskom is spending has already gone to the people reponsible for the tech who are in Japan, nobody is complaining. You people should come clean by admitting that you are against e-tolls for two reasons:
1.) You don't want to pay extra R50 - R350 per month hence the call for fuel levy increase in hope of spreading this to the whole population thus decreasing the burden on you.
2.) You don't mind paying but you are just against it as a silly way to protest against the government.

FAIL.

 

[OMB]

OUTA FUMES AT KAPSCH REVENUE

In response to the following article: http://bloom.bg/14utrge

E-tolling opponents OUTA have reacted with shock to Austrian e-tolling company KapschTraffiCom’s announcement of additional annual revenue of €50 million (approximately R670 million) from Gauteng’s e-tolling system. “This is money that is being extracted directly from the pockets of hard-pressed citizens to improve the profits and wealth of overseas business,” said OUTA chairman, Wayne Duvenage. “The figure Kapsch mentions is around 45% of the annual running costs for the e-tolling system quoted by SANRAL and the South African Treasury,which depicts sizable profits for an off-shore company paid for by the Gauteng road user.” he added.

Figures in OUTA’s possession indicate that the e-tolling system will collect total revenue of between R3 and R3.5 billion a year. Of this amount, approximately R1.5 billion a year will be spent on the actual process of collecting tolls, managed by KapschTraffiCom. This high percentage (45%) of the cost to simply pay for the collection process is one of the key factors behind OUTA’s opposition to the irrationality of the e-tolling system. “Every Rand we send overseas to Kapsch is one Rand less which is available for infrastructure development,” Duvenage said. “And it is also one Rand less in disposable income for the citizens who have to pay.” He said that the scale of Kapsch’s earnings left no doubt about the reasons for the high costs involved, making this the most expensive tolling system in the world. “SANRAL talks about improving the lives of the poor through e-tolling; how does sending over half a billion rand per annum into the coffers of an off-shore company improve the lives of the poor or be in the best interest of the South African citizen? It simply doesn’t,” he said.

Duvenage reminded the public that South Africa was one of the most unequal countries in the world in terms of income distribution and that imposing unnecessary costs on road users would only worsen matters. “Who could believe SANRAL’s claims that e-tolling is beneficial to South Africans when the only proven financial benefit to date is to Kapsch?” he asked. “Kapsch’s bold trumpeting of their revenue figures has unmasked e-tolling as a government-assisted profits for aforeign based entity,” he commented. “If roadbuilding was funded from taxation, the gross waste of half a billion Rand per year on a private overseas company’s services could be averted,”he continued. “In light of this new revelation, OUTA believes it is essential for the Public Protector, or possibly even a judicial commission of enquiry, to deeply probe the e-tolling deal. South Africa’s citizens deserve to know why government has committed itself to outsourcing infrastructure funding to the private sector despite the vast wasted costs of doing so,” he concluded.

source

 

[OMB]

My view is simple. I am not against this because I have always known about it and have never objected to it. It makes no sense to be against urban tolling simply because some profits will go to the people responsible for the tech. A huge chunk of the hundreds of billion that Eskom is spending has already gone to the people reponsible for the tech who are in Japan, nobody is complaining. You people should come clean by admitting that you are against e-tolls for two reasons:
1.) You don't want to pay extra R50 - R350 per month hence the call for fuel levy increase in hope of spreading this to the whole population thus decreasing the burden on you.
2.) You don't mind paying but you are just against it as a silly way to protest against the government.

:erm: no, my reasons are similar to Sinbad

plus SCAMRAL have been disingenuous all along, they have not been transparent and have refused to disclose contracts and beneficiaries, there is also evidence of corruption in the whole deal

 

[Sinbad]

:erm: no, my reasons are similar to Sinbad

plus SCAMRAL have been disingenuous all along, they have not been transparent and have refused to disclose contracts and beneficiaries, there is also evidence of corruption in the whole deal

Yes, this too.
Handing over contracts with whole pages blacked out when ordered to disclose the contracts by the court was just ridiculous.

That aside, the complete lack of transparency and public consultation is a slap in the face.

 

[LazyLion]

Tolling Revenue not going Offshore: SANRAL

Money collected from e-tolling in Gauteng will not go overseas, the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) said on Wednesday.

"Of course, everyone is now jumping on the political bandwagon that once e-tolling commences, all the collected monies will be going overseas. This is simply not true," spokesman Vusi Mona said in a statement.

"What must also be made clear is that all tolls collected on GFIP [Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project] go to Sanral. ETC [Electronic Toll Collection joint venture] is paid for services rendered on a monthly basis, and the payment is strictly according to a bill of quantities as specified in the tender contract."

Mona said the dividends they declared could be paid to foreign companies only after income tax was paid in South Africa.

Sanral awarded the e-tolling contract to the ETC because its tender was more than R2 billion lower than the next offer, he said.

This followed an announcement by Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom that its "loss-making days" would end when e-tolling started.

Kapsch TrafficCom announced on Tuesday that it would get an annual revenue boost of more than EU50 million (about R669m) from e-tolling, including operational costs and selling the system hardware and software to Sanral.

The Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) expressed its shock at Kapsch TraffiCom's announcement.

"This is money that is being extracted directly from the pockets of hard-pressed citizens to improve the profits and wealth of overseas business," chairman Wayne Duvenage said in a statement.

"The figure Kapsch mentions is around 45 percent of the annual running costs for the e-tolling system quoted by Sanral and the South African Treasury, which depicts sizeable profits for an offshore company, paid for by the Gauteng road user."

He said figures in Outa's possession indicated the e-tolling system would collect revenue of between R3bn and R3.5bn a year. About R1.5bn a year would be spent on collecting toll monies, managed by Kapsch TraffiCom.

Duvenage said the scale of Kapsch's earnings left no doubt about the reasons for the high costs involved.

"Sanral talks about improving the lives of the poor through e-tolling. How does sending over half-a-billion rand per annum into the coffers of an offshore company improve the lives of the poor or be in the best interest of the South African citizen?" he asked.

In April, Sanral said it would begin e-tolling on Gauteng roads within two months.

Last April, the High Court in Pretoria granted Outa an interdict approving a full judicial review before electronic tolling could be implemented.

The interdict prevented Sanral from levying or collecting e-tolls pending the outcome of the review. Sanral and the National Treasury appealed the court order.

In September, the Constitutional Court set aside the interim order. In December, the High Court in Pretoria dismissed Outa's application to scrap e-tolling.

The court granted Outa leave on January 25 to take the matter to the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein. The appeal is expected to be heard on September 25 and 26.


Source : Sapa /dm/th/ad/jk
Date : 12 Jun 2013 14:49

 

[TelkomUseless]

My view is simple. I am not against this because I have always known about it and have never objected to it. It makes no sense to be against urban tolling simply because some profits will go to the people responsible for the tech. A huge chunk of the hundreds of billion that Eskom is spending has already gone to the people reponsible for the tech who are in Japan, nobody is complaining. You people should come clean by admitting that you are against e-tolls for two reasons:
1.) You don't want to pay extra R50 - R350 per month hence the call for fuel levy increase in hope of spreading this to the whole population thus decreasing the burden on you.
2.) You don't mind paying but you are just against it as a silly way to protest against the government.

Do you live in Gauteng? Do you actually drive on the toll roads? Do you mind giving R350 and increases in the future?

 

[TelkomUseless]

"Sanral talks about improving the lives of the poor through e-tolling. How does sending over half-a-billion rand per annum into the coffers of an offshore company improve the lives of the poor or be in the best interest of the South African citizen?" he asked.

Date : 12 Jun 2013 14:49

That doesn't compute at all what Sanral said... how the hell do you improve the live of poor when you tax the ***** out of them? When inflation (bread, goods etc price) increases due to e-tolls how does that help the poor?

O wait.. only the ANC can sell that as a positive to the masses, because you must be dumb as nuts to believe that.