[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[kat06sa]

Not an officer, but wouldn't that be the most dangerous thing to do. First, it's interfering with police activities. Which in itself is a crime. But to spook an armed officer is not the greatest idea.

 

[Compton_effect]

To stop them from bullying individuals.

This is not to intimidate them or anything. But they will start this out on a heavy footing, self assured, trying to get people to comply.
Acts like that will take the wind out of their sails.

 

[greg0205]

What would be the purpose?

Yep. More to the point, there are always roadblocks in Johannesburg over December but very seldom on the highways. I'ma asking the first, check that, every Metro who stops me to check for an E-tag on an un-tolled road to point me to exactly where it's been gazetted as a legal requirement to own one.

 

[Compton_effect]

Not an officer, but wouldn't that be the most dangerous thing to do. First, it's interfering with police activities. Which in itself is a crime. But to spook an armed officer is not the greatest idea.

I pulled over to see if everything is ok. And my water light came on. How is that spooking anyone?

 

[blunomore]

To stop them from bullying individuals.

Sometimes even the SAPS or the Metro Police pull people over and intimidate them. Are you going to stop every time you see one of their vehicles pulling over someone too?

People should rather be empowered as to how to deal with bullies in officialdom.

 

[Jola]

I'ma asking the first, check that, every Metro who stops me to check for an E-tag on an un-tolled road to point me to exactly where it's been gazetted as a legal requirement to own one.

Exactly. They can only do something if you are actually behind on your weekly payment. eTag is irrelevant.

 

[Compton_effect]

Sometimes even the SAPS or the Metro Police pull people over and intimidate them. Are you going to stop every time you see one of their vehicles pulling over someone too?

People should rather be empowered as to how to deal with bullies in officialdom.

Can you think of a better idea? Seriously now.

 

[supersunbird]

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/E-tolls-gonig-live-in-Gauteng-20131120

According to Nazir Alli, CEO of Sanral, “we do not want to encourage further lawlessness in our country”.

He said those who do not comply with paying toll fees will be prosecuted in the normal way.

“It is my general belief that people in Gauteng are law abiding citizens,” said Alli

“We will follow a debt collection process. You will get a letter saying you must pay within seven days. If you then do not pay, then a first reminder and if need be, a second notice will be sent to you. If you then continue not to pay, only then you will be served a summons.”

Alli rejected claims that e-tolls prosecutions will flood the courts.

“The court system will not be flooded. There will be no special courts for non-payment of e-tolls,” he said.

“Currently the Sanral act already makes it illegal for people to use a toll road without paying. This has been the case since 1998. So it is not something new. Normal court procedures will follow in terms of the criminal procedures act.”

LOL

 

[Sneeky]

They will try and use December to crack down on a smaller number of people. You can bet money the number of Metro checkpoints will increase and then the Sanral enforcement cars will appear.

Yup, traffic volume of the December period is a fraction of what it is normally.
All the Vaalies are in Dirtbin having a jol.

BY far the quietest time of the year to launch their extortion racket and finesse the collections methods.
Stick it out till after Jan people the system will fail.

 

[blunomore]

Can you think of a better idea? Seriously now.

Read post #1583

 

[blunomore]

“It is my general belief that people in Gauteng are law abiding citizens,” said Alli.

Don't patronise people, OK?

 

[greg0205]

I think I actually heard the DA, IFP, EFF, Agang, FF+ and all the other parties shift into gear after that announcement.

 

[Compton_effect]

Read post #1583

Reddit. Agree with it. But this is South African Law Enforcement we are talking about. They will most likely get very upset if you point that out. Having someone watch your back and remind them to behave would be very helpfull.

 

[Cius]

Sucky Christmas present ANC. On the other hand its going to be a merry easter at the polls. People are going to go to war over this one, especially when food prices go through the roof.

 

[Jola]

... especially when food prices go through the roof.

They already have ...

 

[Wyzak]

Not an officer, but wouldn't that be the most dangerous thing to do. First, it's interfering with police activities. Which in itself is a crime. But to spook an armed officer is not the greatest idea.

The e-toll guys aren't police, they are a law onto themselves.

They already have ...

That was prior to e-tolls, they will go up even further after 3 Dec.

 

[CR34M3]

From the Government Gazette No. 36911

6. Terms and conditions for payment of toll
…
(5) If an alternate user does not pay the toll contemplated in terms of sub-regulation (4) within the time and at the place and subject to the conditions that the Agency may make known and determine, the Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user, to the last known address provided in terms of the National Road Traffic Act by such user, reflecting the amount of the toll payable and such invoice shall be paid by the said user on or before the date reflected on the invoice.

From the Government Gazette No. 36912:

1. Definitions
…
grace period means seven days from the date and time that an a -toll transaction occurs;

5. Discounts applying to tariffs
…
Discounts for alternate users, after the grace period
5.19 An alternate user who uses a GFIP-toll road and fails to pay within the grace period will be granted a discount at the time of the payment of the invoice subject to the provisions of this paragraph. The discount available to the alternate user, the e-toll transactions to which the discount relates and the final date on which the discount is applicable, are -
5.19.1 60% of the tariff set out in Column 6 of Table 1, for all of the e-toll transactions reflected on an invoice but only if payment of the invoice is made by the user to the Agency within 30 days of the date of the invoice; or
5.19.2 30% of the tariff set out in Column 6 of Table 1, for all of the a -toll transactions reflected on an invoice but only if payment of the invoice is made by the user to the Agency after 30 and before 60 days of the date of the invoice.
Payment by a user to the Agency, as contemplated in paragraphs 5.19.1 and 5.19.2 above, must be made subject to the conditions that the Agency may determine and make known.

So reading this can’t see why people would be afraid of a crackdown over December.

Let’s assume you use the etoll road on the going-live date (3 December 2013). Sanral gives you until 10 December 2013 to pay (grace period). From the 11th they can start sending you an invoice – for which they are allowed to take 32 days. Let’s be overly optimistic and assume you receive it the next day, 12 December 2013. For the big discount you’ve got until 11 January 2014 to pay and for the smaller discount until 10 February 2014.

Only after 10 February 2014 will Sanral be able to issue a summons or any other hardcore legal documentation.

Correct me if I’m wrong (legal matters are not my profession), but it would seem to me that we can all happily ignore Sanral well into next year before we’re in danger of being arrested.

 

[Compton_effect]

From the Government Gazette No. 36911

From the Government Gazette No. 36912:



So reading this can’t see why people would be afraid of a crackdown over December.

Let’s assume you use the etoll road on the going-live date (3 December 2013). Sanral gives you until 10 December 2013 to pay (grace period). From the 11th they can start sending you an invoice – for which they are allowed to take 32 days. Let’s be overly optimistic and assume you receive it the next day, 12 December 2013. For the big discount you’ve got until 11 January 2014 to pay and for the smaller discount until 10 February 2014.

Only after 10 February 2014 will Sanral be able to issue a summons or any other hardcore legal documentation.

Correct me if I’m wrong (legal matters are not my profession), but it would seem to me that we can all happily ignore Sanral well into next year before we’re in danger of being arrested.

Nice one. Thank you for that. By then they should be in a panic about the large volume and probably make placating moves to get people to pay.

 

[IzZzy]

Correct me if I’m wrong (legal matters are not my profession), but it would seem to me that we can all happily ignore Sanral well into next year before we’re in danger of being arrested.

At first glance looks right, but I would check when a summons may be issued - and whether it could be issued in conjunction with the first notice by SANRAL.

Because of the staggered discounts, what purpose does the grace period serve exactly? Do we get a greater discount if paid within this period?

I will pay on day 59 after receiving an invoice.

 

[blunomore]

6. Terms and conditions for payment of toll
…
(5) If an alternate user does not pay the toll contemplated in terms of sub-regulation (4) within the time and at the place and subject to the conditions that the Agency may make known and determine, the Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user, to the last known address provided in terms of the National Road Traffic Act by such user, reflecting the amount of the toll payable and such invoice shall be paid by the said user on or before the date reflected on the invoice.

When and how would we have provided addresses referred to here ?