saksakgp
Expert Member
Where did you get those numbers?
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[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread
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Where did you get those numbers?
Nerfherder
Honorary Master
I'm talking specifically about the road upgrades that happened.
I left JHB about 2.5 years ago.
saksakgp
Expert Member
Don't mind Gary, he lives in denial.
The DA brought up those numbers in parliament. 22 billion rand has been collected on average by the fuel levy for the last 19 years, and only 7 billion of that is spent on the roads annually. so 19 years times 15 billion = a crapload of money that was misappropriated = enough to repair the roads to the condition they should be in = no need of etolling.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Aaah, I thought you meant the road upgrades that never happened for the twenty years before that.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Play the ball, not the man.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Bid for E-toll Documents Imminent
The DA will submit an application to Sanral on Thursday to gain access to all documentation related to the implementation of e-tolling in Gauteng.
Democratic Alliance MP Ian Ollis said this would be done under the Promotion of Access to Information Act.
The party was seeking documentation of the contract for services between the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral), Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom, as well as the Electronic Toll Collection (ETC) joint venture.
"South Africans have a right to know what the contractual obligations of Sanral are towards ETC and Kapsch TrafficCom," Ollis said in a statement.
"If e-tolls are necessary for road maintenance and infrastructure, every South African deserves to know how much of their money will be used for this and how much ends up in who's pocket."
Kapsch TrafficCom announced on Tuesday that it would get an annual revenue boost of more than Euro 50 million (about R669 million) for eight years from e-tolling, including operational costs and selling the system hardware and software to Sanral.
Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said on Wednesday money collected from e-tolling would not go overseas.
"This is simply not true. What must also be made clear is that all tolls collected on GFIP [Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project] go to Sanral," he said.
"ETC is paid for services rendered on a monthly basis, and the payment is strictly according to a bill of quantities as specified in the tender contract."
Ollis disputed this.
"From the start, Sanral has always said that e-tolls were justified because money was required for road maintenance in South Africa.
"From Kapsch's announcement, it would appear that e-tolling will have little benefit for South Africa other than fattening a foreign company's bank balance."
The Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance and the Congress of SA Trade Unions expressed shock at Kapsch's announcement.
Source : Sapa /aa/hdw/ad/th
Date : 13 Jun 2013 13:54 OrigID : LP728428
The DA will submit an application to Sanral on Thursday to gain access to all documentation related to the implementation of e-tolling in Gauteng.
Democratic Alliance MP Ian Ollis said this would be done under the Promotion of Access to Information Act.
The party was seeking documentation of the contract for services between the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral), Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom, as well as the Electronic Toll Collection (ETC) joint venture.
"South Africans have a right to know what the contractual obligations of Sanral are towards ETC and Kapsch TrafficCom," Ollis said in a statement.
"If e-tolls are necessary for road maintenance and infrastructure, every South African deserves to know how much of their money will be used for this and how much ends up in who's pocket."
Kapsch TrafficCom announced on Tuesday that it would get an annual revenue boost of more than Euro 50 million (about R669 million) for eight years from e-tolling, including operational costs and selling the system hardware and software to Sanral.
Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said on Wednesday money collected from e-tolling would not go overseas.
"This is simply not true. What must also be made clear is that all tolls collected on GFIP [Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project] go to Sanral," he said.
"ETC is paid for services rendered on a monthly basis, and the payment is strictly according to a bill of quantities as specified in the tender contract."
Ollis disputed this.
"From the start, Sanral has always said that e-tolls were justified because money was required for road maintenance in South Africa.
"From Kapsch's announcement, it would appear that e-tolling will have little benefit for South Africa other than fattening a foreign company's bank balance."
The Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance and the Congress of SA Trade Unions expressed shock at Kapsch's announcement.
Source : Sapa /aa/hdw/ad/th
Date : 13 Jun 2013 13:54 OrigID : LP728428
Nerfherder
Honorary Master
Don't know where you lived that there were no road upgrades.
Look I get that this has cost too much
I get that the entire process was flawed (possibly corrupt)
I get that its wrong for the administrating of the tolling to cost more than the actual debt
But
The roads were upgraded, some one must pay.
Either pay now or pay later... either way you pay.
We have been paying the fuel levy for the last few decades. But for the last 19 years they have only spent 30% of the collected fuel levy money on the roads. 7 billion out of 22 billion.
I'm not sure where you come from, but I don't like paying for something again that I've already paid for.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Sorry I already gave.....
1) Through the Fuel Levy (Which was originally intended to be for Road Maintenance when it was first set up).
2) Through my PAYE Taxes (Yes a portion of the General Fiscus is allocated to the Roads).
3) Through my VAT purchases (Yes a portion of VAT is also allocated to the Roads).
4) Through my Vehicle License and Driver's License Fees
5) Through my Traffic Fines (which go into the Municipal Service Budget).
So big sorry, but this User Already Paid!
AlphaBravo
Expert Member
So where are all this billions going to that they have the need to raise tolls aswell?
Nerfherder
Honorary Master
Well obviously that money is gone... so plan b
Yes I am reasonable. If the money is truly gone and they need more than the steps should be 1) ring fence the 22 billion and only spend it on the roads 2) increase the fuel levy as necessary to be able to fully pay for all road requirements.
Not 3) implement a system where 75% of the cash flows otherwise + billions of rands of overhead in salaries and equipment month after month after month.
Nerfherder
Honorary Master
The ANC has already committed you to the eToll. Weather you fight it or not the country will have to pay the company that holds that contract.
So like I said... pay now or pay later.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
I would looooove to know the answer to that Question.
But knowing how spectacularly successful the Arms Deal Investigation has gone, I'm not holding my breath.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Negatory... I think point 1) of Plan A can still work satisfactorily.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Actually, I am 98% sure we have already started paying for the GFIP through the Fuel Levies.
They just don't want you to know that you will actually be paying double for this utterly stupendous wasteful project.
saksakgp
Expert Member
I don't trust anything said or done by DA. Sanral is a corporation that builds and maintains toll roads that are self funded and builds and maintains non-toll roads that are funded by transfers from the department of transport. There's no link to the fuel levy which is just a petrol tax aimed at increasing government coffers, it's like a different kind of VAT. What DA is saying can't be trusted because it's false.
Nerfherder
Honorary Master
Paying the company that did the roads or paying the company that collects the tolls ?
Remember that even if they are the same company they are not.
saksakgp
Expert Member
My bad.
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