[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[LazyLion]

So who of you have done the honest/right thing and at least donated one month's of eToll fees to Outa? It's unfortunate that an organisation like Outa needs to take on the government, but hardly any activism by South Africans (yes, it is a disgrace that the government uses more of our tax-money to fight something so inherently wrong as eToll - but obviously nothing new).

R500 a month since they first began asking for the donations.
Money well spent IMO.

 

[OMB]

I think I've donated about R2k

 

[Sinbad]

I think I've donated about R2k

Same

 

[LazyLion]

E-tolling not the only option: Lawyer

Legislation allows Sanral to explore options other than tolling to fund Gauteng's freeways, the Supreme Court of Appeal heard on Wednesday.

The SA National Roads Agency Limited should, therefore, have kept an open mind on the matter, despite Cabinet approval of electronic tolling.

"Even bound by the Cabinet decision they still had to follow the procedures of the act," said Mike Maritz, for the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa).

He argued that the SA National Roads Agency Limited Act allowed Sanral to explore other funding options.

Sanral should have considered this and not have been bound by Cabinet's decision that the project be funded with public money through e-tolling.

The court was hearing an appeal by the Outa in its challenge against Sanral's decision to electronically toll several highways in Gauteng.

The High Court in Pretoria granted Outa leave to appeal against a previous judgment it handed down.

Replying to a question by Judge Fritz Brand whether Sanral should have ignored Cabinet's decision, Maritz said Sanral should have kept an open mind and taken all options into consideration.

Maritz conceded in argument that if Sanral had to re-consider a funding option it may or may not ignore Cabinet's decision again.

He asked a full Bench of the SCA not to look into a crystal ball and predict possible future outcomes if Sanral were asked to review its decision.

He argued that in a real world, where there had been a massive public outcry, and considering all alternatives, the outcome could be different.

The matter continues.


Source : Sapa /ag/hdw/th/fg
Date : 25 Sep 2013 12:04

 

[Paul_S]

I have great admiration for what OUTA are trying to achieve but I think it's time that they back down so that the public can finally show SANRAL exactly how they feel about e-tolling.

 

[2026]

So who of you have done the honest/right thing and at least donated one month's of eToll fees to Outa? It's unfortunate that an organisation like Outa needs to take on the government, but hardly any activism by South Africans (yes, it is a disgrace that the government uses more of our tax-money to fight something so inherently wrong as eToll - but obviously nothing new).

Seems like when ever you try to do the right thing, the government just turns around and calls you the criminal. Lengthy, unnecessary and costly court cases take place. Maybe thats why the activism is so low.

 

[Wyzak]

I have great admiration for what OUTA are trying to achieve but I think it's time that they back down so that the public can finally show SANRAL exactly how they feel about e-tolling.

Only when the legal avenues have been exhausted.

 

[2026]

Only when the legal avenues have been exhausted.

I thinks the money will run dry before that happens, don't think the DA will fork over another wad of cash after this attempt.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Seems like when ever you try to do the right thing, the government just turns around and calls you the criminal. Lengthy, unnecessary and costly court cases take place. Maybe thats why the activism is so low.

True, but backing down and not fighting it is probably worse. The government only gets away with it, since activism is so low in the first place.

Only when the legal avenues have been exhausted.

I seriously doubt that any consumer activism will happen. There will be an outcry from the public, but eventually people will just pay - has happened with everything else in the past as well. I applaud the few who actually take their responsibility further than just voting.

 

[OMB]

True, but backing down and not fighting it is probably worse. The government only gets away with it, since activism is so low in the first place.


I seriously doubt that any consumer activism will happen. There will be an outcry from the public, but eventually people will just pay - has happened with everything else in the past as well. I applaud the few who actually take their responsibility further than just voting.

yep, I think there's an overwhelming sense of apathy about this, for example the OUTA facebook page has 9830 likes, the Petition To Stop Romain Poite facebook page has 63687 likes, so people are more concerned about a French Ref in a rugby match than about getting screwed over by SCAMRAL?

 

[Wyzak]

I seriously doubt that any consumer activism will happen. There will be an outcry from the public, but eventually people will just pay - has happened with everything else in the past as well. I applaud the few who actually take their responsibility further than just voting.

That's the normal attitude yes, but the low number of registered e-tags suggest otherwise. People just don't have any money lying around anymore, so I'm hopefuly that this will be different.

 

[Sinbad]

That's the normal attitude yes, but the low number of registered e-tags suggest otherwise. People just don't have any money lying around anymore, so I'm hopefuly that this will be different.

Also, hopefully the fact that no actual action is needed to resist this will contribute.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

That's the normal attitude yes, but the low number of registered e-tags suggest otherwise. People just don't have any money lying around anymore, so I'm hopefuly that this will be different.

All the people I know who bought e-tags, bought them because of SANRAL's fear-mongering back then (and I think you could get the tags at a discount). It was not about the cost of the tag. You can find the same level of complacency in many other areas where people assume that someone else will fix it for them and eventually just swallow it uncontested (Mweb throttling, increase in property rates, electricity cost, non-delivery of government agencies).

Now the government spins it, that it will cost more if we don't quickly institute it. I say, just scrape it and revisit fuel-levies (or car licenses) - both easier to collect. The other provinces are not involved, as they perceive it to be a Gauteng-problem (although we all know that Cape Town is going to be next).

 

[Budza]

The other provinces are not involved, as they perceive it to be a Gauteng-problem (although we all know that Cape Town is going to be next).

Hell NO!

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Hell NO!

You guys asleep down there? - Read this: http://www.fin24.com/Economy/DA-to-challenge-Cape-e-toll-project-20130326

 

[Paul_S]

People just don't have any money lying around anymore, so I'm hopefuly that this will be different.

+1
The low or zero annual salary increases a lot of people received combined with escalating fuel, food and municipal tariffs has ensured that the average family's disposable income has shrunk drastically over the past 5 years.

I'm already on a basic hospital only plan and I'm even considering cancelling the comprehensive insurance on my financed vehicle (which is only R560/month) just to help ease the financial strain.
My wife and I don't get a bad salaries either yet we can barely afford a cheap house (<R700K), one financed vehicle and a single child.
I do not know how other families are making ends meet. The e-tolling is the final nail in the coffin for a lot of people.

 

[Budza]

You guys asleep down there? - Read this: http://www.fin24.com/Economy/DA-to-challenge-Cape-e-toll-project-20130326

DA.
They're the ace up our sleeve. Without Provincial / Municipal buy in, tolls face a steeper uphill battle.

I hope...

 

[LazyLion]

Toll Infrastructure 'water under the bridge' : OUTA

How to pay for the erected Gauteng toll road infrastructure might be the only issue now to be decided, the Supreme Court of Appeal heard on Wednesday.

"You cannot undo history," Mike Maritz, for the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa), said in reply to questions about the gantries that had already been built.

Outa wants the court to set aside the decision to declare some of Gauteng's freeways toll roads.

Maritz said this could be the only way to compel the SA National Roads Agency Ltd (Sanral) to comply with legal procedures.

He further submitted that Sanral and government had not considered the e-toll system's cost to the public.

"One gets the impression it was a done deal, the erecting of a Gauteng e-toll system, irrespective of the cost."

Maritz said this could not have been a rational decision and on this single ground the move to implement a toll system could be unlawful.

It was submitted that Sanral must have been the safety net for proper public processes.

The agency should have foreseen the project's consequences on the public and the economy and taken the public's views into account, Maritz argued.

Previously the High Court in Pretoria granted Outa leave to appeal against a judgment it handed down.

Outa argued, on appeal in the lower court, it had misinterpreted a section of the Sanral Act on public consultation to reach its ruling that e-tolling could proceed.

The matter continues.


Source : Sapa /ag/th/jje/jk
Date : 25 Sep 2013 15:14

 

[OMB]

brace yourselves Sheilas, this just up on Twitter

President Jacob Zuma has signed the eTolls legislation, the Transport Laws and Related Matters Amendment Bill, into law.

Presidency: Act will facilitate the upgrading and development of the transport infrastructure and public transport in the Republic.

Presidency: All legislative requirements have been completed for eTolling. Minister now has to publish regulations and tariffs.

 

[Compton_effect]

**** just got real.