Microsoft and Apple rivalry heats up

[Bryn]

Can't you get something with a better gpu and upgradable RAM at 18k?

Sure, whilst sacrificing massively in the other areas the MBA excels in. The 8GB of memory in the Air is sufficient for most people, and from my experience is definitely not comparable to having 8GB of memory with Windows. I run a lot of stuff side-by-side and rarely experience memory swapping. But if you want 16GB, then get that config at initial purchase. It's a small 'price' to pay for the convenience of godlike battery like and thermal efficiency.

If you want a powerful GPU, you probably shouldn't be looking at a MacBook. These aren't for gaming or GPU-heavy workflows.

 

[Bryn]

Yep. I am pro-Windows.
I grew up with it. I work professionally in ICT with it, from Desktop/Laptop and Server OS level. I know it well inside and out. I prefer it and I am transparently leaning towards it.

I gave a few reasons why Apple is not for me. Not just a MBA, all of their devices.
Whether my opinion is regarded or disregarded doesn't really matter.

Here's an article that puts things unbiased into context. The Apple fans would like the results of the article. The Microsoft fans too.

Apple M1 vs. Intel CPU: This is the best processor for your laptop

Apple M1 vs Intel CPU — let the battle begin!

www.laptopmag.com

Not that it's the crux of the article, but some of that comes down to apps not being updated for Apple Silicon. They mention Outlook being sluggish on the new M1 Macs, but Outlook has received a significant beta update for Mac in the last month. It has a new design and is very responsiveness from my experience. I use it over Apple Mail even.

 

[|tera|]

From your artcile
If we look at raw speeds, it's no contest. We use Geekbench 5 as our flagpole for overall system performance. Even when running the benchmark through an emulator, the MacBook Air with 16GB of RAM scored a 5,962, topping the latest XPS 13 (5,319) with 11th Gen chips. Even Lenovo's Yoga 9i, which uses the most powerful 11th Gen Intel chips for ultraportable laptops, fell short of the MacBook Air with a score of 5,312.

This translated into some compelling real-world advantages for the MacBook Air, which converted a 4K video to 1080p resolution in just 9 minutes and 15 seconds whereas the XPS 13, our top Windows 10 laptop, needed 18 minutes and 22 seconds and the Yoga 9i took 14 minutes and 24 seconds.

Would you suggest an XPS13 for video conversion over the Macbook Air to a vlogger?

Read the entire article. Don't be a twat.
It's not 'my' article.

Apple may not be for you, and I am on generally the same boat of being pro-Windows... But the M1 chip is a damn fine piece of engineering and those Apple machines are generally incredible.

As always though they don't cover all use cases so won't be the best for everything, but that even applies within the Windows/x86 space of laptops, you need to buy what works best for you specifically and Apple seem to have found a good sweet spot that is attractive to a lot of users and at a good price point as well.

Completely agree. That's the consensus of the article I posted.

...you can run Windows on a Mac...

Yep. I know. I'm not repeating all my posts. Apple is not for me. Not just a MBA.

 

[Park@82]

Sure, whilst sacrificing massively in the other areas the MBA excels in. The 8GB of memory in the Air is sufficient for most people, and from my experience is definitely not comparable to having 8GB of memory with Windows. I run a lot of stuff side-by-side and rarely experience memory swapping. But if you want 16GB, then get that config at initial purchase. It's a small 'price' to pay for the convenience of godlike battery like and thermal efficiency.

If you want a powerful GPU, you probably shouldn't be looking at a MacBook. These aren't for gaming or GPU-heavy workflows.

I hear you and I almost want to jump on the band wagon but I would really have liked to be able to play red dead 2 once in a while for example. I just think that there are other options at 18k that will give you better gpu performance and upgradable storage and ram at that price mark.

 

[Bryn]

I hear you and I almost want to jump on the band wagon but I would really have liked to be able to play red dead 2 once in a while for example. I just think that there are other options at 18k that will give you better gpu performance and upgradable storage and ram at that price mark.

R18k wouldn't even buy a decent desktop GPU for RDR2, thanks to the current pricing nonsense going on worldwide. You're asking too much for an entire system at R18k, desktop or mobile, to manage that.

At this stage, the value proposition of consoles looks better than ever. Especially the Xbox Series X with Game Pass Ultimate. R12,000 now buys a mediocre graphics card, or your choice of a PS5 or XBSX. Even as a militant PC gamer, that Series X looks very tempting to me.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Read the entire article. Don't be a twat.
It's not 'my' article.

Completely agree. That's the consensus of the article I posted.

Yep. I know. I'm not repeating all my posts. Apple is not for me. Not just a MBA.

Tbh I think you really should rethink your stance at some point, the MBA or any of the MacBook products are fantastic and for the type of work many IT people are doing these days they are actually incredibly fit for purpose as well. The vast majority of my 'techie' type stuff these days is in some form of command line or coding tool.

I work almost exclusively in and on Microsoft products and I am considering getting a MacBook of some form in the near future.

 

[CataclysmZA]

Can't you get something with a better gpu and upgradable RAM at 18k?

For R18k you can definitely get something that has user-replaceable parts like the keyboard and memory.

That's the primary concern for me when recommending notebooks to anyone. If it breaks, will I be able to repair it?

 

[Bryn]

For R18k you can definitely get something that has user-replaceable parts like the keyboard and memory.

That's the primary concern for me when recommending notebooks to anyone. If it breaks, will I be able to repair it?

You can get an iCare warranty extension for Macs:

iStore South Africa | South Africa's Widest Apple Range Online iStore Support

Shop South Africa's widest Apple product range at iStore. Free, fast delivery nationwide — get the latest iPhone, iPad, Mac, and accessories delivered to your door.

www.istore.co.za

Considering what something like a screen repair or logic board replacement can cost, those prices are pretty good for 3 years of coverage.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yep. I am pro-Windows.
I grew up with it. I work professionally in ICT with it, from Desktop/Laptop and Server OS level. I know it well inside and out. I prefer it and I am transparently leaning towards it.

I gave a few reasons why Apple is not for me. Not just a MBA, all of their devices.
Whether my opinion is regarded or disregarded doesn't really matter.

Here's an article that puts things unbiased into context. The Apple fans would like the results of the article. The Microsoft fans too.

Apple M1 vs. Intel CPU: This is the best processor for your laptop

Apple M1 vs Intel CPU — let the battle begin!

www.laptopmag.com

Also grew up with it. Before Windows was when Windows as it is today.

So I’ve been in this industry for near 20 years and on all sides over time and it’s exactly why I would gravitate towards Apple for end users and Linux for servers.

We don’t need Windows for anything at all any more and by and large their offerings suck.

The only place Windows really wins out is the super cheap end of the market and for that quite honestly the same people happy with that would do just fine with an iPad in vast majority of cases and be perfectly happy for it.

 

[CataclysmZA]

You can get an iCare warranty extension for Macs:

iStore South Africa | South Africa's Widest Apple Range Online iStore Support

Shop South Africa's widest Apple product range at iStore. Free, fast delivery nationwide — get the latest iPhone, iPad, Mac, and accessories delivered to your door.

www.istore.co.za

Considering what something like a screen repair or logic board replacement can cost, those prices are pretty good for 3 years of coverage.

Even with Apple Care, Macbooks are fundamentally not as good when it comes to long-term use, recovery, and repairs.

If your SSD on an M1 dies and you didn't make backups, you can't recover that data. If one part of the motherboard dies like a Thunderbolt IC, Apple won't perform board level repairs on it - they just replace it. If you need a new keyboard, the entire shell has to be replaced. If the ribbon cable connecting the display is broken, you have to replace the whole display because everything is glued in place.

Despite their attractive design and high integration with Apple's ecosystem, I shy away from recommending modern Macbooks unless someone needs Final Cut or some other macOS-only software that is part of their workflow. If the budget is constrained, I recommend refurb or ex-rental business notebooks that have spares readily available.

Edit: I also only recommend Macbooks when the client needs a bright, mostly colour-accurate display for photo and video work. There are use-cases that only Apple covers where they don't have any competition.

 

[Ecco]

Apple would obliterate the PC market if the dropped their pricing.

Maybe i am ignorant and dont understand their business properly, but if they do make their devices more affordable they can capture the market. And if their products are really that great, people wouldn't make the move back to pc, and would prefer to pay a premium for a premium product in the longer run.

 

[Wut]

Apple would obliterate the PC market if the dropped their pricing.

Maybe i am ignorant and dont understand their business properly, but if they do make their devices more affordable they can capture the market. And if their products are really that great, people wouldn't make the move back to pc, and would prefer to pay a premium for a premium product in the longer run.

Because when they do that they are no longer seen as being "Premium" and the thing to have and show off. A lot of Apple's original appeal was the show-off factor when you whipped out your MacBook at a hip coffee joint.

 

[greg0205]

MS folks presuming to know why folks buy a Mac is making me laugh my goddamn ass off.

 

[Bryn]

Even with Apple Care, Macbooks are fundamentally not as good when it comes to long-term use, recovery, and repairs.

If your SSD on an M1 dies and you didn't make backups, you can't recover that data. If one part of the motherboard dies like a Thunderbolt IC, Apple won't perform board level repairs on it - they just replace it. If you need a new keyboard, the entire shell has to be replaced. If the ribbon cable connecting the display is broken, you have to replace the whole display because everything is glued in place.

Despite their attractive design and high integration with Apple's ecosystem, I shy away from recommending modern Macbooks unless someone needs Final Cut or some other macOS-only software that is part of their workflow. If the budget is constrained, I recommend refurb or ex-rental business notebooks that have spares readily available.

Edit: I also only recommend Macbooks when the client needs a bright, mostly colour-accurate display for photo and video work. There are use-cases that only Apple covers where they don't have any competition.

Well, with iCare (which is a local thing, not Apple Care) you can always ensure that you're fully covered. So that's pretty good with regards to 'long-term use, recovery and repairs'.

In this day and age, no one should have local-only copies of files. All my stuff is in Google Drive and iCloud. If my Mac blew up I'd just have to install my apps again.

I do keep tabs on people like Louis Rossmann and his fight for Right to Repair. So I know Apple could do a million times better in this department. But it's a shortcoming that can be mitigated with warranties.

MacBooks aren't just great for the quality of the display. The battery life is reason enough to go with them. Instead of worrying about inverters or generators or whatever, you enjoy a laptop with enough battery life to easily make it through any amount of load shedding and unplanned blackouts you're likely to experience.

 

[quovadis]

Can't you get something with a better gpu and upgradable RAM at 18k?

Performance and spec wise, no.

 

[quovadis]

Yep. I know. I'm not repeating all my posts. Apple is not for me. Not just a MBA.

I’ve migrated all my workloads to Apple for anything mobile and retained a Windows desktop. I used to run parallels with Windows on OSX but with Visual Studio, Azure Data Studio and Office all native on OSX there’s no reason anymore for me to boot it hence the decision to go M1. I haven’t touched a top spec XPS I have since I bought M1 MBP

 

[|tera|]

Tbh I think you really should rethink your stance at some point, the MBA or any of the MacBook products are fantastic and for the type of work many IT people are doing these days they are actually incredibly fit for purpose as well. The vast majority of my 'techie' type stuff these days is in some form of command line or coding tool.

I work almost exclusively in and on Microsoft products and I am considering getting a MacBook of some form in the near future.

I hear you. I'm not a Dev though. I'm in Administration and Support. My Dev skills and knowledge is self-taught.

My point:
+- R350 per month, pay when needed:

MacinCloud - Rent a Mac in the Cloud! - Mac in Cloud

MacinCloud is a Mac cloud platform that provides on-demand Mac cloud servers, flexible dev workload infrastructure and comprehensive Mac in the Cloud solutions

www.macincloud.com

Why pay R100K or more? - (As I've experienced first-hand.)

 

[CataclysmZA]

Well, with iCare (which is a local thing, not Apple Care) you can always ensure that you're fully covered. So that's pretty good with regards to 'long-term use, recovery and repairs'.

Sure, but only for a maximum of three years from date of purchase and/or registration within a limited window.

If you've got everything backed up then I do concede that having extended warranty support puts paid to most people's concerns within the first 1-2 years of ownership. Extended warranties are one of the reasons why people still put up with Incredible Connection.

I do keep tabs on people like Louis Rossmann and his fight for Right to Repair. So I know Apple could do a million times better in this department. But it's a shortcoming that can be mitigated with warranties.

While this is beyond the scope of the thread topic, my issue with how Apple approaches "repairs" of their products is that they create the problem themselves and then charge you even more to give you limited recourse to receive support if the hardware goes bad during the coverage period. And then they strongarm their suppliers to never sell components to repair shops who would purchase the replacement parts they need direct from Apple or their suppliers.

I suppose that's where insurance is supposed to step in and cover the consumer beyond the warranty period, but I still want to see Apple making repairs of their devices an easier job.

I suppose I'd also feel differently about this if I had higher spending power, like consumers in the USA do, because they have actual iStores not run by Core Group with proper product support.

 

[Park@82]

R18k wouldn't even buy a decent desktop GPU for RDR2, thanks to the current pricing nonsense going on worldwide. You're asking too much for an entire system at R18k, desktop or mobile, to manage that.

At this stage, the value proposition of consoles looks better than ever. Especially the Xbox Series X with Game Pass Ultimate. R12,000 now buys a mediocre graphics card, or your choice of a PS5 or XBSX. Even as a militant PC gamer, that Series X looks very tempting to me.

Was looking at something like this earlier https://www.takealot.com/msi-gl65-l...gb-15-6-fhd-gaming-notebook-blac/PLID71334749 currently R18k... rdr2 should be "playable". Can't say that for the M1 Mac.

I agree on the part about consoles and I already have an older Xbox + Gamepass but I would not take it on the road with me.

 

[Bryn]

Was looking at something like this earlier https://www.takealot.com/msi-gl65-l...gb-15-6-fhd-gaming-notebook-blac/PLID71334749 currently R18k... rdr2 should be "playable". Can't say that for the M1 Mac.

I agree on the part about consoles and I already have an older Xbox + Gamepass but I would not take it on the road with me.

A perfectly valid point, but it's not an (ahem) apples to apples comparison to weigh up a rather poor gaming rig against a superb work machine.

These are wildly different use cases. The Windows machine does a poor job within its space and the Apple machine excels within its space.