Mobile data users losing out

[vodacom3g]

wrong. u cannot load another bundle on a bundle that is not yet finished. if the bundle is finished, however - even within 30 days - u can load another bundle. on vodacom, that is, dunno about anyone else...

I think the confusing with all the posts is that MTN and VC work differently here.

With MTN you can only load 1 bundle per 30 day period (or month, not 100% sure), with VC there is no limit to the number of bundles you can load, both on contract or pre-paid.

On Vodacom, you can 'pre-load' a new data bundle, so you don't have to go OOB.

 

[vodacom3g]

No, they don't have real-time info on prepaid (I think it is pretty much realtime on contract). Prepaid info can be delayed by over 3 hours.

Actually the other way around

Pre-paid is real-time, while contract is delayed by up to 3 hours.

The pre-paid system is much newer and was specifically built for data while the contract system is more of a legacy system. This whole architecture is being re-looked at the moment.

 

[vodacom3g]

My bad I was just quoting from Vodacom’s website.
http://www.vodacom.co.za/packages/mobiledata/data_tariff_prepaid_topup.jsp

Tx, will get it updated.

 

[eaglebeaver]

Actually the other way around

Pre-paid is real-time, while contract is delayed by up to 3 hours.

The pre-paid system is much newer and was specifically built for data while the contract system is more of a legacy system. This whole architecture is being re-looked at the moment.

I noticed this the other day. I was waiting for my bundle to deplete and kept looking at my usage on voacom4me in a separate tab after 30 secs or so and watched it go down as i surfed.

 

[CathJ]

Actually the other way around

Pre-paid is real-time, while contract is delayed by up to 3 hours.

The pre-paid system is much newer and was specifically built for data while the contract system is more of a legacy system. This whole architecture is being re-looked at the moment.

Aargh. Of course - if I'd stopped typing long enough to actually think for a second, I would have realised that

 

[andres101]

Our books are not and have never been "fixed". If you believe your data bill was incorrect then you simply have to call your SP and your bill will be investigated. Credits will be passed if the bill was incorrect.

When I was with MTN, I tried numerous times over a 6 month period to get someone to look at my bill. After I ported, I had to go to ICASA to get you stop billing me. I have still not received my refund and probably never will. MTN, you suck more!

Hi
Just to make a statement, has anyone compared the data rates that people pay in other countries....... We are not even near their pricing, we are way cheaper.
<snip>

They do offer flat-rate services, similar to their fixed line services, which is much cheaper than anything we have.

Another problem with the data billing is that you are not just paying for the data you are using, but also for the data that is sent to you. Even when such data was not requested!

 

[vodacom3g]

Aargh. Of course - if I'd stopped typing long enough to actually think for a second, I would have realised that

 

[louwtjiedt]

Actually the other way around

Pre-paid is real-time, while contract is delayed by up to 3 hours.

The pre-paid system is much newer and was specifically built for data while the contract system is more of a legacy system. This whole architecture is being re-looked at the moment.

Now that you're on the forum representing VC, I would like to ask you a question. If pre-paid system is so much newer, why the F... does my bundle expire after 30 days? I've been trying to sort this out but NO ONE at VC seems to know? Look at my previous posts on this thread.

 

[vodacom3g]

Another problem with the data billing is that you are not just paying for the data you are using, but also for the data that is sent to you. Even when such data was not requested!

Which is exactly why Vodacom don't allow incoming ports to be open on the internet and internetvpn APN's. This way the only data that will flow down to your modem is a response to a request you sent out in the first place.

If you do need open incoming ports (say you want to do remote support, stream video, run a WEB service, etc.), you can request the unrestricted APN from Vodacom. But you then will need to sign a form so that we're sure you're understanding the risk.

 

[vodacom3g]

Now that you're on the forum representing VC, I would like to ask you a question. If pre-paid system is so much newer, why the F... does my bundle expire after 30 days? I've been trying to sort this out but NO ONE at VC seems to know? Look at my previous posts on this thread.

Firstly, I've been on this forum representing Vodacom for many years, right from the day we launched our 3G service

Secondly, I've answered the 30-day question many times in the Vodacom sub-forum. Have a look there.

 

[chubster]

Our books are not and have never been "fixed". If you believe your data bill was incorrect then you simply have to call your SP and your bill will be investigated. Credits will be passed if the bill was incorrect.

Meaning you can't trust your service provider, I had to call MTN and investigate 3 times now. I just removed the MTN data bundle from my phone and got a Vodacom SIM for R2, "reload" R389 for 2Gb of Data bundle, and it expires when the bundle is used up. WOW so simple, so effective. All I'm not happy with is all the data usage are your downloads and uploads, not just your total download. So I always have to count the upload + download together and THEN subtract it from my bundle value. Same happens on MTN. Just a shame that the cable companies are now starting to do the same in the USA.

 

[louwtjiedt]

Firstly, I've been on this forum representing Vodacom for many years, right from the day we launched our 3G service

Secondly, I've answered the 30-day question many times in the Vodacom sub-forum. Have a look there.

Any Link maybe?

 

[diabolus]

So I always have to count the upload + download together and THEN subtract it from my bundle value. Same happens on MTN. Just a shame that the cable companies are now starting to do the same in the USA.

Eh? Is upload actually been free up to now in the USA or what? I thought "bandwidth" was always considered up AND download? I mean if i share my entire collection of MP3s to the world , someone's gotto pay for the amount bandwidth going "up" [from my PC to my ISP] ? Essentially if uploads were considered "excempt", everyone would host their websites from home ...for free.

 

[chubster]

Which is exactly why Vodacom don't allow incoming ports to be open on the internet and internetvpn APN's. This way the only data that will flow down to your modem is a response to a request you sent out in the first place.

If you do need open incoming ports (say you want to do remote support, stream video, run a WEB service, etc.), you can request the unrestricted APN from Vodacom. But you then will need to sign a form so that we're sure you're understanding the risk.

Which APN allows open incoming ports?
And should a Pre-Paid customer also sign a form?
Are they only blocking public access incoming ports or are they blocking incoming from other Vodacom clients?
I'm asking this because on MTN, I used to get port 135/445 Microsoft Windows Network Client (I didn't bother to check if it is official MS client or a worm) requests to my PC/Phone, even though I run Linux.
Why doesn't the links work on the Vodacom FAQ, they just jump to the same Thread.

 

[Chevron]

Eh? Is upload actually been free up to now in the USA or what? I thought "bandwidth" was always considered up AND download? I mean if i share my entire collection of MP3s to the world , someone's gotto pay for the amount bandwidth going "up" [from my PC to my ISP] ? Essentially if uploads were considered "excempt", everyone would host their websites from home ...for free.

Most isps in Australia also allow free upload.

 

[vodacom3g]

My bad I was just quoting from Vodacom’s website.
http://www.vodacom.co.za/packages/mobiledata/data_tariff_prepaid_topup.jsp

Actually, looks like an old link, will have it killed.

The correct link is: http://www.vodacom.co.za/services/mobile_data/vodacom_what_cost.jsp

 

[stoke]

From : http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=1958377

While it's correct that the terms of the contract is known to everyone upfront, I'm keen to hear the views of those opposed to a time limit on roll-over on how they would do it.

So basically the question is;

How would you structure a product where you buy bandwidth in bits/second but sell it as data bundles in bytes?

Pretty much.

As an analogy, think of buying a stream of water (say a river) that flows 10 000 liters per hour. For this you pay a certain monthly figure, irrespective if you use the water or not.

You now want to on-sell the water.

To make the water more affordable to small-scale users, you sell them water per bucket.

But you can't buy a bucket of water and then keep it in your garage. This is a limitation of the system.

So, rather they buy a 'bucket of water' and get to tap into the river over a period till the bucket is full. Then they can buy a new, empty bucket.

This model works fine if there is some predictability on how quickly a bucket will be filled. You need to know how many people will be filling up their buckets over a specific time to work out how strong the river must flow to handle all potential requests for water.

If there is no predictable period in which all the buckets sold will be filled up, a situation could arise where suddenly a large number of buckets try to get water from the river and exceeds to river's capacity to fill them.

One solution could be to make the river bigger (increase the flow rate) to handle such a possibility, but then you pay more for the bigger river and it drives the cost per bucket you charge up.

Even if you just increase the period in which the buckets could fill up, you need to increase the flow rate to handle potential peak demand and thus the price per bucket would go up again.

This crude analogy is exactly what happens with data.

Vodacom buys bandwidth in bits/second from Telkom at a fixed monthly price. Whether this bandwidth is used or not, does not matter. You pay the monthly line rental.

Vodacom then sell bundles in bytes.

The price per bundle is now a factor of the line rental number (the average speed needed plus any headroom for peak demand). The longer the roll-over period, the bigger the peak could be and thus the more expensive bundles will become as the base line speed will have to go up.

The question is, what is the margin that's added to accommodate indefinite 'rollover'?

But while it's still possible to store excess energy and release it when required, I'm pretty sure the first guy that figures out how to save a time-based parameter (such as bits/second) is going to rewrite the physics books

But we all know what the right answer is here; Bandwidth should be so inexpensive that there are no more caps in the first place.

The mobile operators are currently between a rock and a hard place.

Firstly, there is not enough back-haul capacity available to grow the network at the required rate. Telkom is thousands (and thousands) of lines behind in supplying lines ordered.

Secondly, the cost is very high, so the more lines you put in, the higher the operational cost is and thus data prices can't fall.

The answer is to get massive capacity into the ground and thus every man and his dog is digging up the roads.

Basically, Teklom charges per month, so that is passed on to the consumer? Or am I missing the picture with all the analagee's going on?

 

[andres101]

stoke, you are correct. the solution is quite simple... if Vodacom is buying at a flat rate, they should also be selling at a flat rate (like the rest of world).

 

[diabolus]

How would you structure a product where you buy bandwidth in bits/second but sell it as data bundles in bytes?

..
The question is, what is the margin that's added to accommodate indefinite 'rollover'?

I still don't believe "rollover" is the ultimate answer, it's just "patching" a silly system to begin with.

If i had my way, you'd pay a monthly fee for a lower per MB rate . Same as voice. I don't mind if you put a 10GB "excessive use" cap on everyone per month purely based on limitations of the network. But i am willing to pay say R300 a month to -NOT- have to buy a bundle of any kind and to NOT have to worry "am i going to lose some obscure pre-allocated amount" or "am i still in my bundle or not?" . If i use 100MB one month and 2GB the next, i do NOT want to feel "oh crap, i've just wasted money" .

For that R300 i'd instead pay 20c a MB and be done with it. The operator can even go as far and say if you are on these "bundle-less" contracts, then your "excessive use" cap is higher based on your contract.

In reality it would look like this:
i.e.
Data Contract @ R100 a month
Data Tariff @ 50c a MB .

--> if i use nothing, i only pay R100. If i use 1GB, i pay R100 + R500 = R600 . If i don't like 50c p/mb you go on a "bigger" priceplan

i.e.
Data Contract @ R300 a month
Data Tariff @ 20c a MB
Get 1GB free <---rollover on this is another story but it's essentially not a bundle it's like "free minutes".


**Cap set at 5GB/10GB or whatever.

And looking at it, operators might actually make more out of this, and people might even feel less ripped off. I mean look at your Voice Contracts, you might pay R300 a month on your "procall 120" or whatever package..you DON'T always use all the free minutes, and all you -really- get is a lower per minute tariff! (andf maybe a phone). I don't see people complain as much about that...

 

[JK8]

Now its available to Top Up customers...