More black staff, or else...

[koffiejunkie]

Teething problems - what a joke. We're way beyond teething problems. And the people how have the power to really take care of it, is too occupied with enriching themselves and trying to stay out of jail.

Get rid of the criminals in power, and I might start to take S.A.'s "efforts to improve" half seriously.

 

[Vrotappel]

Not sharing your knowledge, also called self-preservation is not going to help. If we are to move forward as a nation we need to share ideas, knowledge, be transparent, then setting up ourselves to be one great nation.

We take the greed attitude, I've got the knowledge attitude, do not be surprised when you are met with harsh Acts. So I hope that answers you.

Once again you lost the plot. The world is not going to give you hand outs in perpetuity. You can force it in SA with acts (and enjoy it while it lasts). But the future generations are going to pay the cost for these acts. Have you not learned from the rest of Africa? This hand out or I take model has never worked, give me one example where it has worked in the past.

 

[ironrod]

Once again you lost the plot. The world is not going to give you hand outs in perpetuity. You can force it in SA with acts (and enjoy it while it lasts). But the future generations are going to pay the cost for these acts. Have you not learned from the rest of Africa? This hand out or I take model has never worked, give me one example where it has worked in the past.

Its either you have a "let's work together" attitude, or pack your bags and go. We are trying to build this nation, through dialogue, because we have the dynamics of different cultures at play here. What I consider good for me, might not be good for you, that I will never know, until I engage you in discussions.

We are 14 years into new dispensation, so bear that in mind.

 

[ironrod]

Teething problems - what a joke. We're way beyond teething problems. And the people how have the power to really take care of it, is too occupied with enriching themselves and trying to stay out of jail.

Get rid of the criminals in power, and I might start to take S.A.'s "efforts to improve" half seriously.

Have you tried to setup a consulting forum, where you have discussed the dynamics involved in running your company,with all the stakeholders?

We are two different cultures, the way we do things will differ, but we can agree to disagree, find a common ground. We take a stubborn attitude, the end result is not going to suit either.

 

[koffiejunkie]

Talk to who? There a small company. There's a big company. There are several other small companies that have the right "demographic." Big company or government isn't interested in discussing anything.

 

[ironrod]

Talk to who? There a small company. There's a big company. There are several other small companies that have the right "demographic." Big company or government isn't interested in discussing anything.

The Act makes provision for all stakeholders, designated and non-designated gorups, to conveneand find something that suits everyone, with sacrifices, for the good of the companies.

 

[koffiejunkie]

The Act makes provision for all stakeholders, designated and non-designated gorups, to conveneand find something that suits everyone, with sacrifices, for the good of the companies.

That assumes a willingness on all the stakeholders to engage in such discussions. The big guys lack the willingness (because they have no incentive). Not the small guys.

 

[Frankie]

Once again you lost the plot.

It sure is obvious that he has.

The Act makes provision for all [BEE] stakeholders, .

But then he's got a 'class act', and that's all it will remain while we have Black Elite Enrichment (BEE).

 

[Frankie]

Talk to who? There a small company. There's a big company. There are several other small companies that have the right "demographic." Big company or government isn't interested in discussing anything.

I had a small technical services business with my largest customer being Eishkom - they gave me a deadline to become BEE/EE/AA compliant after which they'd stop doing business with me if I did not comply.
I was not prepared to go this route, seeing as I had risked all to start the business and was not prepared to take on a partner/manager - I closed the business and went abroad.
The fact that I had employed a number of black unskilled staff and trained them to a semi-skilled level is not considered.

 

[Zenbaas]

The Act makes provision for all stakeholders, designated and non-designated gorups, to conveneand find something that suits everyone, with sacrifices, for the good of the companies.

I know what you're trying to get at. Peace and love in our Rainbow nation where everyone is equal and all is fair. Any problems can be worked out, and a common ground found between all. Yes in theory truly beautiful, but in practice just plain discriminatory. There are some cases where companies find a common ground with the actual requirements of the Act, but in most its just becoming a representativity thing.

People are losing their jobs not based on performance, but purely based on race(and yes races as such do not exist, as we are informed about all the time, although it is used almost everywhere in everyday life in SA).
Now, how can this be justified? How can blatant discrimination against one "race" that is advantageous to another not be discrimination? That is why so many people are seeing the EE and BEE as a reverse apartheid of sorts.

Yes we want to be positive about the country and our prospects in it, but increasing the amount of hurdles one needs to overcome just to make a living is not increasing my faith in this system.

 

[ironrod]

That assumes a willingness on all the stakeholders to engage in such discussions. The big guys lack the willingness (because they have no incentive). Not the small guys.

We might be small guys,but like ants, we can make a lot of impact by pulling together as a unit, assuming we all agree on certain terms, but the big guys are not willing to listen. We embark on mass action type of reaction to force them to comply. You must understand, there are sacrifices that needs to be made, and evryone needs to understand that.

 

[Syndyre]

We might be small guys,but like ants, we can make a lot of impact by pulling together as a unit, assuming we all agree on certain terms, but the big guys are not willing to listen. We embark on mass action type of reaction to force them to comply. You must understand, there are sacrifices that needs to be made, and evryone needs to understand that.

Why do sacrifices automatically need to be made? Assuming that implies stagnation, that rather than increasing the proverbial pie through economic growth so that everyone benefits we're going to simply redistribute the existing one.

 

[ironrod]

It sure is obvious that he has.



But then he's got a 'class act', and that's all it will remain while we have Black Elite Enrichment (BEE).

You can misquote me all you like, with an additional BEE stakeholders thing. It is due to your attitude that you closed your business, not because of the Acts.

If you had wanted your business to survive, you would have adapted. Africa is not for sissies

 

[marine1]

No Africa is for brain dead morons. Clearly indicated.

 

[Zenbaas]

No comment Ironrod?

If you had wanted your business to survive, you would have adapted. Africa is not for sissies

Uhmm...or for human rights

 

[Syndyre]

You can misquote me all you like, with an additional BEE stakeholders thing. It is due to your attitude that you closed your business, not because of the Acts.

If you had wanted your business to survive, you would have adapted. Africa is not for sissies

Frankie was standing by his principles, which are entirely valid IMO. Why should he give up a portion of the business he worked hard to create to someone else?

 

[koffiejunkie]

You can misquote me all you like, with an additional BEE stakeholders thing. It is due to your attitude that you closed your business, not because of the Acts.

If you had wanted your business to survive, you would have adapted. Africa is not for sissies

Easy for you to say. It's not your hard earned life savings on the line.

 

[koffiejunkie]

they gave me a deadline to become BEE/EE/AA compliant after which they'd stop doing business with me if I did not comply.

It is due to your attitude that you closed your business, not because of the Acts.

There's nothing wrong with his attitude. No one should be faced with that kind of ultimatum. Small companies (I'm talking under 10 people) can least afford to be bullied like that.

The fact that I had employed a number of black unskilled staff and trained them to a semi-skilled level is not considered.

Case in point. If he had taken on that black partner, the only BEE beneficiary would have been someone who was already in the money and didn't need any "help" - and like so many small companies who has fallen for this, he would have been stuck with a parasite who contributes little to the company but takes his cut of the earnings.

Africa is not for sissies

Tell that the thousands of woman who get raped every year. I'm sure they'll be understanding.

It doesn't have to be like this.

 

[lsuacner]

Do we all agree that if we consult with all the stakeholders, as the Act states, we could find a better way through the maze, than being resistant to change?

Actually I read it, it is bull****.

I was never consulted when the boss hired black staff members (2 of the 3 can not and will never be able to do the work) who against the King report, against SOX and the Code of Conduct do not have the necessary experience, skill and knowledge to do the job.

The fact that they can not do the job has nothing to do with them being black, they are just not up to it. They are however hired just for being black.

Ironrod, when this country sees it ass, "I told you so". The developed nations; do not think the way you or the ANC does.
The West has successes to testify to the fact that they make good decisions, Africa has tried to screw the whites/Western influence before, it has never worked and been a success.

 

[Zenbaas]

Small companies (I'm talking under 10 people) can least afford to be bullied like that.

I thought the very small companies were exempt from the EE Act?