More black staff, or else...

SuperAntMD said:
I have begun to notice a trend developing over the forum which I think is probably true for the country as a whole.

The great divide comes down to what is basically capitalism vs. socialism i.e. those that believe that everyone needs to work to get what they deserve, and those that believe it should be state funded handouts to run in and save the day whenever life starts getting a little tough.

The ANC has increasingly leftist views which are shared by much of our population (obviously, since they get such an overwhelming majority in every election). Even the Xenophobic attacks are a symptom of this "hand-out" mentality. The foreigners are willing to work hard at whatever job they can get and earn a salary, save some money and improve their lives whilst the locals are still waiting for the mighty hand of government to step in and drop blessings in their laps. Then they complain because the foreigners "are taking all the jobs". I call bull**** on that, there is no work ethic in South Africa whatsoever and government policies are holding us further back rather then helping us move forward.
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Very true.

ironrod said:
Has any of you read what is written in the EE Act? The Act says level the playing fields, removed the barriers to diversity.

Do we all agree that these inequalities were due to the policies implemented by the past regime? Anyone of you, got better ideas than what is being suggested in the EE Act?

Have you guys being consulted by your relevant managers, regarding the Act, setup consultative forums?
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What the act says and what it does are too different things. I wouldn't recommend believing everything a politician says, no matter which party they belong to.
 
Do we all agree that if we consult with all the stakeholders, as the Act states, we could find a better way through the maze, than being resistant to change?
 
ironrod said:
Do we all agree that if we consult with all the stakeholders, as the Act states, we could find a better way through the maze, than being resistant to change?
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What do you mean specifically? I'm not resistant to change per se, I just think everyone should compete on their merits, regardless of race. I honestly believe that if that happened change would happen in that businesses would become more representative at all levels but it'd be a more natural, organic process.
 
ironrod said:
Do we all agree that if we consult with all the stakeholders
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Do we consult the stake holders? No! We beat them into submission.

You clearly have never been in a position where you have find some to hire that you don't need and can't afford, just because getting that one contract that will take you through the next month requires you to have x number of black people. An no, it's not that the law says everybody has to have certain quotas. But the government and big companies and their AA beneficiary directors says "we won't do business with you because you don't have enough black people."

In the end it's the small companies that suffer.
 
Syndyre said:
You haven't answered me, you just choose to generalise with "the likes of you". Why should anyone be forced to work for somebody else? The implication is that being white and successful is something to apologise for. If people are prepared to work hard they'll do well, black or white.
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Not sharing your knowledge, also called self-preservation is not going to help. If we are to move forward as a nation we need to share ideas, knowledge, be transparent, then setting up ourselves to be one great nation.

We take the greed attitude, I've got the knowledge attitude, do not be surprised when you are met with harsh Acts. So I hope that answers you.
 
ironrod said:
Not sharing your knowledge, also called self-preservation is not going to help. If we are to move forward as a nation we need to share ideas, knowledge, be transparent, then setting up ourselves to be one great nation.

We take the greed attitude, I've got the knowledge attitude, do not be surprised when you are met with harsh Acts. So I hope that answers you.
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As others have said sharing knowledge is a process that should happen naturally, you can't force it. I've picked up knowledge just from working with people when they weren't explicitly sharing it, when you work with someone if they're more experienced you generally learn from them. You can't legislate knowledge sharing.
 
koffiejunkie said:
Do we consult the stake holders? No! We beat them into submission.

You clearly have never been in a position where you have find some to hire that you don't need and can't afford, just because getting that one contract that will take you through the next month requires you to have x number of black people. An no, it's not that the law says everybody has to have certain quotas. But the government and big companies and their AA beneficiary directors says "we won't do business with you because you don't have enough black people."

In the end it's the small companies that suffer.
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That must be a well paying contract if you hire people you do not want and cannot afford, and still be profitable at the end of the day.
 
ironrod said:
That must be a well paying contract if you hire people you do not want and cannot afford, and still be profitable at the end of the day.
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It's not and that's the point. And even if it was, small companies are being forced to do things that make no business sense. Did you miss the part about small companies suffering?
 
ironrod said:
That must be a well paying contract if you hire people you do not want and cannot afford, and still be profitable at the end of the day.
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koffiejunkie said:
It's not and that's the point. And even if it was, small companies are being forced to do things that make no business sense. Did you miss the part about small companies suffering?
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Even if it was all that means is that it pushes up costs for e.g. government contracts and wastes money.
 
Syndyre said:
As others have said sharing knowledge is a process that should happen naturally, you can't force it. I've picked up knowledge just from working with people when they weren't explicitly sharing it, when you work with someone if they're more experienced you generally learn from them. You can't legislate knowledge sharing.
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Yes, sharing knowledge is a natural thing, but what gets me angry is when people threten to leave for greener pastures, instead of looking for solutions. I agree it is giong to take some time to achieve that, we all have to adopt a positive attitude, to build this country, by contributing to it.
 
koffiejunkie said:
It's not and that's the point. And even if it was, small companies are being forced to do things that make no business sense. Did you miss the part about small companies suffering?
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I think he missed the entire point:rolleyes:
 
ironrod said:
Yes, sharing knowledge is a natural thing, but what gets me angry is when people threten to leave for greener pastures, instead of looking for solutions. I agree it is giong to take some time to achieve that, we all have to adopt a positive attitude, to build this country, by contributing to it.
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A lot of people are put off by the excessive government regulation and being told flat out by people they work for that "they don't want to see so many whites in the company" etc. If you give people an environment to build businesses and leave them alone they'll succeed, look at places like Hong Kong.
 
ironrod said:
Sorry,I missed the point, things must not be done for the sake of self-enrichment. That is one of the things that needs to be reviewed about the BEE act.
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Well now there you have spoken a true truth. Unfortunately this will probably remain as long as BEE remains, like it or not. The whole point with BEE has been missed. But this has been discussed ad naseum so i will leave it there.
 
ironrod said:
Yes, sharing knowledge is a natural thing, but what gets me angry is when people threten to leave for greener pastures, instead of looking for solutions. I agree it is giong to take some time to achieve that, we all have to adopt a positive attitude, to build this country, by contributing to it.
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I guess you have no idea just how demoralising it is to be told, "you have to transfer your skills to this new guy, and when that's done we'll get rid of your loyal, reliable, hard-working arse and put him in your place. And to rub salt in your wounds, we'll pay him much more than you ever got."

ironrod said:
Sorry,I missed the point, things must not be done for the sake of self-enrichment. That is one of the things that needs to be reviewed about the BEE act.
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There's a difference between self enrichment and earning enough to put food on your table, clothe and put your kids through school and uni, and put something away for your old days.

Taking from one group to give to the other does not address the inequities. All it does is breed racial discord. How about spending all that BEE effort and time and legislation effort making sure our children get a proper education? This means making the most of, and trying to retain the skilled teachers you have, not just building more school buildings.

Government wants to "fix" the inequities. It's like painting over cracks in your walls - all it does is change appearances. Which I think is all that government is interested in.
 
koffiejunkie said:
I guess you have no idea just how demoralising it is to be told, "you have to transfer your skills to this new guy, and when that's done we'll get rid of your loyal, reliable, hard-working arse and put him in your place. And to rub salt in your wounds, we'll pay him much more than you ever got."
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You can always teach someone absolutely rubbish ;)
 
koffiejunkie said:
I guess you have no idea just how demoralising it is to be told, "you have to transfer your skills to this new guy, and when that's done we'll get rid of your loyal, reliable, hard-working arse and put him in your place. And to rub salt in your wounds, we'll pay him much more than you ever got."

There's a difference between self enrichment and earning enough to put food on your table, clothe and put your kids through school and uni, and put something away for your old days.

Taking from one group to give to the other does not address the inequities. All it does is breed racial discord. How about spending all that BEE effort and time and legislation effort making sure our children get a proper education? This means making the most of, and trying to retain the skilled teachers you have, not just building more school buildings.

Government wants to "fix" the inequities. It's like painting over cracks in your walls - all it does is change appearances. Which I think is all that government is interested in.
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That should be done with succession plan in place, when you retire, resign or transfer, then the understudy is appointed in your position.


The window dressing is going to be addressed by the Skills Development Act, to make sure that the relevant people with the correct requirements are appointed.

The SETA's are put in place for that reason.
 
ironrod said:
That should be done with succession plan in place, when you retire, resign or transfer, then the understudy is appointed in your position.
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Yes but it's not done - that's the problem. And you cannot expect someone who's gone through that, to be positive about their futures in S.A. and not consider/want to go to a country where their skills are sought after and companies are willing to go through all sorts of trouble to hire them. Being called "whingers" by the very government officials who are supposed to serve us, the people, doesn't help either.

The vast majority of people leaving South Africa would not be doing so if the job market was really level, employees jobs were protected regardless of their colour, people felt safe in their homes, and the government was seen to be serious about really addressing the problems of the country and serving the people. Building a mulit-million rand wall around your house while denying that crime is a problem sends the wrong message.
 
I believe in all aspects of life, there is teething problems, that we as a country, through consultative forums set at all workplaces,can be able to address these kind of issues. All workplaces are different, so must be treated differently, according to operational needs.

My opinion.
 
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