Name and Shame: Unauthorised Debit Orders Thread

Praeses said:
My family members and I who have Discovery and Telkom did not get this D/O, so most likely the leak is from elsewhere if it's not random.
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Trying to find the leak: I added a vehicle to my Outsurance policy and was requested to have a tracking device fitted. Next thing this tracking company phoned to offer me a device for my vehicle, spot-on with the vehicle description. I was offered a choice of installers, was read the terms and conditions, gave my bank account number and was promised an e-mail as confirmation- which never came. Was it the dealer, the bank or the insurer who leaked my information?
 
BarOne001 said:
Trying to find the leak: I added a vehicle to my Outsurance policy and was requested to have a tracking device fitted. Next thing this tracking company phoned to offer me a device for my vehicle, spot-on with the vehicle description. I was offered a choice of installers, was read the terms and conditions, gave my bank account number and was promised an e-mail as confirmation- which never came. Was it the dealer, the bank or the insurer who leaked my information?
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I have the suspicion that its not a company that is responsible for our info getting into these peoples hands. I'm much more of the opinion that individuals have been approached to gather and then "sell" the info to the fraudsters. For that to happen, I imagine the bigger the company and the more the staff are just "faceless" numbers, the easier it is to retrieve and then sell our info.
 
Jings said:
Makes one wonder what purpose FICA serves.
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Just like most other restrictive laws, all it does it make the lives of law-abiding citizens more and more difficult.
 
Toxxyc said:
Just like most other restrictive laws, all it does it make the lives of law-abiding citizens more and more difficult.
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Exactly, you'd think all the returned debit orders would raise a red flag on the holder's bank account. It really is suspicious why the bank hasn't frozen the account yet, especially given the return reasons. Each return type generates a specific code. There's no way the bank could miss something like that.
 
kitkat+ said:
This has happened to me as well. I phoned Nedbank, they reversed the illegal debit order but will not reverse the
bank fees for unpaid debit order. Banks like nedbank enjoy this cause they can make alot of money from insufficient funds in the account
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phone them again & insist that they refund you the charges for reversal. thousands of clients affected & most in their call center now aware of this.
Also, please report by email to [email protected] . It's 2018 and time for banks find a new way to deal with fraudulent debit orders.
 
Eventually spoke to a representative from customer complaints management at Capitec. I pushed them on the issue, and got the same response: "Nothing we can do. We can request a mandate, and refer them to PASA." Some good news, the reversal fees have now been dropped to R5 using the app or internet banking. Bad news, you pay R5 to reverse fraudulent debit orders, you will still pay R3.37 for debit orders, you will still pay R5.xx for insufficient funds in account. EDIT: Capitec contacted me again, and informed me that they have contacted UPS, requested a mandate, and instructed them to cancel all future debit orders. I must commend the individual for her assistance and customer service.
 
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raynerb said:
Eventually spoke to a customer complaints manager at Capitec. I pushed them on the issue, and got the same response: "Nothing we can do. We can request a mandate, and refer them to PASA." Some good news, the reversal fees have now been dropped to R5 using the app or internet banking. Bad news, you pay R5 to reverse fraudulent debit orders, you will still pay R3.37 for debit orders, you will still pay R5.xx for insufficient funds in account.
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Please phone your bank again & demand reversal of the R5 as well.
Inundate the banks with reversals of fees and force them to handle this differently. They could for example do a global reversal on ALL debit orders with this UPS NCONNUPS reference and FORCE the criminals at Umvuza Payment Services to supply proof of legit debit orders. Only the banks can sort this out and they'll only do that if clients force them to.
Innocent people should NEVER pay for criminal actions.
 
I've been sending emails every day since the first amount was taken off my account. No real replies other than the automated ones.

I'm not the "cause a big stink on social media" type, but standard bank really doesn't give two effs about the fact that I have to pay R30 for them to tell me why they let someone take my money out of my account.
 
Since I had to go to the bank last Thursday anyway I demanded they (Nedbank) reverse the R5 charge for reversing the debit order. I spoke directly to a manager and did not get any push back. My account does not incur fees for paying a debit order but if it had I would have demanded this be reversed as well. I was told that since I put a stop on the d/o via the Nedbank Money app I would be charged R55 for that, but it has not shown up and the manager said it should have by now. I made it clear that if it ever does I will be demanding it be reversed.

Then things got interesting. I asked who authorizes the debit orders. She said she doesn't know. She said no one at the bank knows. This is, of course, not possible, as I pointed out. They don't magically appear. Someone submits them. The best I could get out of her is that there are 3rd parties involved who do authorization and then instruct the bank, but they don't know who these are. And probably they are different for different companies, i.e., multiple 3rd parties. I am still waiting on the details of the people responsible for placing the debit order (and suspect I will be phoning in again more than once before I get this - I am surprised this takes so much time, both her and the contact center said 3 to 5 working days, which means that they don't keep records of this stuff even though they have to know who it is at the time the debit order is placed.) She said they do not have the authority to put a permanent stop on it and this is why the 3 month limit. This may be true. She said that if I cannot get the authorizing company to stop debiting my account I can contact the bank's dispute resolution department and if they can't help me then the ombudsman.

So once again we jump through hoops just like with FICA but the people stealing our money aren't checked at all.

To those saying they're closing their accounts, if you're doing that to open a new one so that you can make sure the debit orders don't continue (or hope that will be the case) then fine, but as far as I can tell all the banks will allow this kind of fraud and will try to charge you to reverse it, so expecting something better somewhere else is pointless. They won't even take responsibility for it because they're just acting on instructions from third parties who are responsible for checking the mandate. As far as the banks are concerned they've done their duty. They haven't really, but legally speaking and in their minds they have.
 
Loans Unlimited - or whatever they are calling themselves this hour. I'm not sure how they are even allowed to operate the kind of business they do.

Anyway, they handed me over to there collection agency, so fine, I left it. But when I reverse the debit order for loans unlimited themselves, they simply change details so that the banks block doesn't work.

They are now debiting me 3 different times in the month, even when the payments go through, costing me a bunch in fees and reversal of debit orders, so now i'm changing my bank details, and closing the old account down, and they can then kindly shove it when there collection agency tries to get the money. The real kicker is, I didnt even give them my bank details and I have no idea where they got the details from.
 
BradleyKZN said:
Loans Unlimited - or whatever they are calling themselves this hour. I'm not sure how they are even allowed to operate the kind of business they do.

Anyway, they handed me over to there collection agency, so fine, I left it. But when I reverse the debit order for loans unlimited themselves, they simply change details so that the banks block doesn't work.

They are now debiting me 3 different times in the month, even when the payments go through, costing me a bunch in fees and reversal of debit orders, so now i'm changing my bank details, and closing the old account down, and they can then kindly shove it when there collection agency tries to get the money. The real kicker is, I didnt even give them my bank details and I have no idea where they got the details from.
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I think you have a more serious problem than unauthorised debit orders, could it be identity fraud?
 
thechamp said:
I am under siege, this month three of those unauthorised debits went off, after a couple months without any, can anyone with some information kindly explain how hard it is for the banks to implement that system that was supposed to protect us against such debits? it been in the pipeline forever now, are the banks dragging their feet purposefully or are there really issues in implementing this?
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The UK system is better, We call 'DOs' direct debits. When you give one the banks undertake to refund you without quibble if you consider the D/D incorrect. I have never had any problems over the years. Over here is a different story.
 
entity17 said:
Since I had to go to the bank last Thursday anyway I demanded they (Nedbank) reverse the R5 charge for reversing the debit order. I spoke directly to a manager and did not get any push back. My account does not incur fees for paying a debit order but if it had I would have demanded this be reversed as well. I was told that since I put a stop on the d/o via the Nedbank Money app I would be charged R55 for that, but it has not shown up and the manager said it should have by now. I made it clear that if it ever does I will be demanding it be reversed.

Then things got interesting. I asked who authorizes the debit orders. She said she doesn't know. She said no one at the bank knows. This is, of course, not possible, as I pointed out. They don't magically appear. Someone submits them. The best I could get out of her is that there are 3rd parties involved who do authorization and then instruct the bank, but they don't know who these are. And probably they are different for different companies, i.e., multiple 3rd parties. I am still waiting on the details of the people responsible for placing the debit order (and suspect I will be phoning in again more than once before I get this - I am surprised this takes so much time, both her and the contact center said 3 to 5 working days, which means that they don't keep records of this stuff even though they have to know who it is at the time the debit order is placed.) She said they do not have the authority to put a permanent stop on it and this is why the 3 month limit. This may be true. She said that if I cannot get the authorizing company to stop debiting my account I can contact the bank's dispute resolution department and if they can't help me then the ombudsman.

So once again we jump through hoops just like with FICA but the people stealing our money aren't checked at all.

To those saying they're closing their accounts, if you're doing that to open a new one so that you can make sure the debit orders don't continue (or hope that will be the case) then fine, but as far as I can tell all the banks will allow this kind of fraud and will try to charge you to reverse it, so expecting something better somewhere else is pointless. They won't even take responsibility for it because they're just acting on instructions from third parties who are responsible for checking the mandate. As far as the banks are concerned they've done their duty. They haven't really, but legally speaking and in their minds they have.
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Agreed. This is blatant theft and it's really infuriating that these scum get away with it.
We should be able to hold our banks to account so as to ensure they themselves take further action against these thieving criminals.
This is theft on a grand scale, they should get the hawks involved, freeze all the accounts of these scumbag criminals and send them to jail for 200 000 years.

dammit.
*rant over*
 
This is very common. I know of people that open call centers and they buy about 10 000 details of people’s accounts. They then debit the accounts for R99 cos not all people get SMS for transactions under R100. Those that complain are refunded. So of the ten thousand people that are debit and say if nine thousand are refunded cos they picked up the illegal debit, then they are left with maybe a thousand people that were debited. So R99 x 1000 is R99 000 rands per month. But more often the amount that they make can double or triple depending on the amount of people that find out.
 
Tander said:
Then it doesn't fall under fraud then. Its something completely different.

Just gone through my account and there is one transaction I have no idea what its for. The amount is under R100 and this is the description: Zbd Fx Ibf9nx2971 Sd3gr208x5ju0z81. Will be phoning the banks tomorrow to find out what this is about.
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Two months ago, I had to verify a amount that was deposited in my account...while searching came across some weird debit orders of 89,99 and 99,99 bucks...that went back about three months. Called my bank and was advised to use my app to decline/block the debits. As the consultant advised, they get numerous calls regarding unauthorised debit orders. Best to always check your account, you have 40 days to despite a debit order.
 
Another month end around the corner. Another round of unauthorised debit orders.

Already 2 posters in the other thread.
 
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