Nelson Mandela

killadoob said:
There is no suffering needed to realize mandela could have come out and declared war with the white man but instead he tried to unite the nation.

That is the reason he is a hero. Either way you have to sit down and ask yourself what would i have done to the white man.

People can argue about the bombings and terrorist activities but those same people i would imagine have very little idea what the blacks went through. Both sides were bad but when the blacks came to power with mandela as their leader he never wanted revenge. Bloody hero if you ask me.
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But what if this not the true story. What if it was all done for another reason riding under the veil of so called peace. Maybe you were a bit too naive to *just* believe a story made history from what you saw if there might have been more to be seen.

It still would have costed him nothing to say sorry... when he could. It only means that he has no real remorse for what he ordered to be done (or did himself) even if it had to be done to cause change. A man who has truly reached peace will had to stopped at a time and come to terms for all his actions not just those he want to, because of what has been done.

It takes little or nothing to be sorry for what you have done, in fact imho it would have truly attested to his jesushood. I have nothing against him part this and all those who just runs along with the song of the piper. One should be careful of whom he makes a messiah...

:edit
Fudzy said:
Me too, the TRC proved the MK weren't the only ones committing terrorist activities. De Klerk okay'd a few bombings himself.
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The same goes for Die Oom.
 
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killadoob said:
There is no suffering needed to realize mandela could have come out and declared war with the white man but instead he tried to unite the nation.
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I bet he didn't crash his own economy, he didn't throw away his Godlike reputation given to him by the west, and didn't risk losing a war, all for you.
 
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History is told by the victor - Captain John Price, Modern Warfare 2

So that being said, history is not necessarily the truth
 
Pr⊕phet said:
But what if this not the true story. What if it was all done for another reason riding under the veil of so called peace. Maybe you were a bit too naive to *just* believe a story made history from what you saw if there might have been more to be seen.

It still would have costed him nothing to say sorry... when he could. It only means that he has no real remorse for what he ordered to be done (or did himself) even if it had to be done to cause change. A man who has truly reached peace will had to stopped at a time and come to terms for all his actions not just those he want to, because of what has been done.

It takes little or nothing to be sorry for what you have done, in fact imho it would have truly attested to his jesushood. I have nothing against him part this and all those who just runs along with the song of the piper. One should be careful of whom he makes a messiah...

:edit

The same goes for Die Oom.
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Please dude read this:

In 1961 Mandela became leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated Spear of the Nation, and also abbreviated MK), which he co-founded.[36] He coordinated sabotage campaigns against military and government targets, making plans for a possible guerrilla war if the sabotage failed to end apartheid.[37] Mandela also raised funds for MK abroad and arranged for paramilitary training of the group.[37]

Fellow ANC member Wolfie Kodesh explains the bombing campaign led by Mandela: "When we knew that we [sic] going to start on 16 December 1961, to blast the symbolic places of apartheid, like pass offices, native magistrates courts, and things like that ... post offices and ... the government offices. But we were to do it in such a way that nobody would be hurt, nobody would get killed."[38] Mandela said of Wolfie: "His knowledge of warfare and his first hand battle experience were extremely helpful to me."[14]

Mandela described the move to armed struggle as a last resort; years of increasing repression and violence from the state convinced him that many years of non-violent protest against apartheid had not and could not achieve any progress.[14][39]

In June 1961, Mandela sent a letter to South African newspapers warning the government, that if they did not meet there demands, the Umkhonto we Sizwe would embark on campaign of sabotage. The letter demanded the government accept a call for a national constitutional convention.[40] The demands were not met by the government and beginning on December 16, 1961, the Umkhonto we Sizwe with Mandela as its leader, launched a bombing campaign against government targets with the first action of the campaign being the bombing of an an electricity sub-station
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They tried for a peaceful solution, they warned the government. What you are doing is saying mandela killed for no reason which is utter BS. If he was that kind of person we would not be living so well.
 
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I have unfortunately lost all respect for the man. He has idly sat back and basically condoned the current cANCer by not voicing an opinion...
 
IRG said:
I have unfortunately lost all respect for the man. He has idly sat back and basically condoned the current cANCer by not voicing an opinion...
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You don't actually know if he's voiced his opinion. Because you don't know, he loses all your respect? Doesn't take much. Mandela has said a lot about the way the direction the ANC turned.
 
killadoob said:
Please dude read this:



They tried for a peaceful solution, they warned the government. What you are doing is saying mandela killed for no reason which is utter BS. If he was that kind of person we would not be living so well.
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I'll will, but you clearly read what you wanted to read. You might want to retry and doing it slowly. See highlighted part

This might help, which was missed:

Sometimes one has to do something cruel to cause the needed effect. However when time comes it takes nothing from you to say yes I'm sorry I've done terrible things and I am sorry for it.


Pr⊕phet said:
But what if this not the true story. What if it was all done for another reason riding under the veil of so called peace. Maybe you were a bit too naive to *just* believe a story made history from what you saw if there might have been more to be seen.

It still would have costed him nothing to say sorry... when he could. It only means that he has no real remorse for what he ordered to be done (or did himself) even if it had to be done to cause change. A man who has truly reached peace will had to stopped at a time and come to terms for all his actions not just those he want to, because of what has been done.

It takes little or nothing to be sorry for what you have done, in fact imho it would have truly attested to his jesushood. I have nothing against him part this and all those who just runs along with the song of the piper. One should be careful of whom he makes a messiah...

:edit

The same goes for Die Oom.
Click to expand...
 
IRG said:
I have unfortunately lost all respect for the man. He has idly sat back and basically condoned the current cANCer by not voicing an opinion...
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The man is senile - hardly knows what's going on around him any more.
 
ChocolateBadger said:
History is told by the victor - Captain John Price, Modern Warfare 2

So that being said, history is not necessarily the truth
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Or the puppet master(s). I and fear we have a few in the background lolling their arses off at us for eating the cream pie of the "messiah" and its party.
 
R13... said:
You don't actually know if he's voiced his opinion. Because you don't know, he loses all your respect? Doesn't take much. Mandela has said a lot about the way the direction the ANC turned.
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Seriaass ??? OK. He is the one man who could single handedly change the ANC from within (still today) .. and nothing! He might be old, but surely not ignorant.
 
Pr⊕phet said:
Or the puppet master(s). I and fear we have a few in the background lolling their arses off at us for eating the cream pie of the "messiah" and its party.
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Well he is in a senile state but my fear is that the ANC use that to their advantage, saying things on his behalf and what not, even after hes gone, getting a sangoma to talk to him in the after life and make crazy statments to win support. I can hear the ANC already stating that if you do not vote ANC, tata madiba is going to burn down your house. :erm: I mean the ANC have tried the religious card already. Not voting ANC will send you to hell. Sigh
 
ChocolateBadger said:
Well he is in a senile state but my fear is that the ANC use that to their advantage, saying things on his behalf and what not, even after hes gone, getting a sangoma to talk to him in the after life and make crazy statments to win support. I can hear the ANC already stating that if you do not vote ANC, tata madiba is going to burn down your house. :erm: I mean the ANC have tried the religious card already. Not voting ANC will send you to hell. Sigh
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Over the weekend I saw an old man wearing an SACP shirt saying, "do it for Chris Hani". Do it as in Vote ANC. The ANC and their alliance are going to milk the history of the struggle for as long as they can, it is up to us to drag them into a political environment where political relics aren't relevant and the issues are what we vote on.
 
IRG said:
Seriaass ??? OK. He is the one man who could single handedly change the ANC from within (still today) .. and nothing! He might be old, but surely not ignorant.
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No he can't. He did his bit, he tried to unite the nation. What has happened since is not his fault.

Prophet he has nothing to be sorry for, he did what was needed when it was needed and then he came to power and saw that way was no longer needed and acted accordingly.

People need to see what mandela did for this country once the blacks had the right to piss anywhere they liked.
 
IRG said:
I have unfortunately lost all respect for the man. He has idly sat back and basically condoned the current cANCer by not voicing an opinion...
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They guy is in his nineties and can barely do even some of the basic activities without assistance. He hardly has the strength anymore and yet you still want him to do so much more then what he has already done. I'm sorry but he is only a man after all and should be given his time to rest at the back end of his life.

IRG said:
Seriaass ??? OK. He is the one man who could single handedly change the ANC from within (still today) .. and nothing! He might be old, but surely not ignorant.
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Just to point some things that you may not know. Mandela and the ANC have disagreed on several things, such as HIV/AIDS during Mbeki's reign but the ANC effectively shut him out and silenced his voice on that matter. He can't single handedly change the entire ANC because while they still utilise his name and obviously respect him, they will also want their own agendas to be taken care of. Add that to the fact he is getting older and is struggling in just the simplest of tasks now, which is normal considering his age and you can't blame him.

If he was much younger, then I guess your point would be valid.
 
killadoob said:
No he can't. He did his bit, he tried to unite the nation. What has happened since is not his fault.

Prophet he has nothing to be sorry for, he did what was needed when it was needed and then he came to power and saw that way was no longer needed and acted accordingly.

People need to see what mandela did for this country once the blacks had the right to piss anywhere they liked.
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These people are hypocrites, they claim Mandela is no god yet expect him to fix the ANC single handedly (as if even a god could achieve such a feat):confused:
 
killadoob said:
Prophet he has nothing to be sorry for, he did what was needed when it was needed and then he came to power and saw that way was no longer needed and acted accordingly.
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He still is responsible for deaths whether or not it was by his hand, whether or not it was needed to be done.

You still fail to understand that if it had to be done... you can still be sorry for it, there is no harm in it. If you can't show remorse regardless of that then you have not gone past your acts even if by those you have united and caused "peace". He might be a great man, but I would like to put that great to the test. This goes for both Die Oom (de klerk) and madiba.

R13... said:
These people are hypocrites, they claim Mandela is no god yet expect him to fix the ANC single handedly (as if even a god could achieve such a feat):confused:
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No says he should have fixed anything with one step. Some of us, more realistic than others with our auto-worshipping switched off is just lacking the rose tinted glasses. If made "jesus" then it should be so unconditionally and not selectively.
 
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