Nelson Mandela

Fudzy said:
Well then you acknowledge that atrocities of both sides were equally unacceptable, the difference is one side fought to make it better, the other fought to keep it the same.
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The ends don't justify the means.

It's not over yet, the ANC/SACP/Cosatu has bigger plans
 
Nicodeamus said:
We should also consider that at the time laws such as the immorality act was passed black subjugation was a world wide phenomenon, when Verwoerd was in power, it was still illegal for a black and a white couple to be married in 37 of the states in America. Herman Giliomee actually wrote a very nice balanced article (I thought) in rapport last week.

http://www.rapport.co.za/Weekliks/Nuus/Apartheid-Was-dit-dan-net-boos-20120623

I doubt you will find an English version anywhere.

I find it ironic that Time Magazine voted Verwoerd in 1960 as one of the greatest leaders of the decade and in 1994 they voted Mandela into the exact same position.

If you want to judge apartheid then judge it by the morality of its own time as Gilliomee said.
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Wasn't Hitler too?
 
Fudzy said:
Wasn't Hitler too?
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Hitler was pretty much criticized by every leader (apart from the countries that allied with him), even uncle Joe Stalin thought he was a tyrant, but surprisingly yes, just before the Holocaust the Armenian genocide did occur and before that countless other wars just as cruel as WW2, Germany had reasons to go to war, but they had no reason to do what they did during the war. Although discussing WW2 is even more of a complicated issue because quite frankly there wasn't a 'good side'.
 
ponder said:
The ends don't justify the means.

It's not over yet, the ANC/SACP/Cosatu has bigger plans
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I doubt they have the capability of carrying them out, even if they wanted to, so far they couldn't run a successful military campaign and they cannot govern a country successfully. Unless failure is one of their plans.
 
TheHiveMind said:
are you saying he wasn't?

Give me the name of a contemporary leader who can compare.
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Huh? I wasn't sure if he was or not. Looking at the list, Time magazine certainly can't honouring all these people.
 
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Garyvdh said:
That was what the whole truth and reconciliation commission was about, it gave these people a way to get amnesty without actually having to make any actual personal apologies. :mad:
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so what. you'd swear this man was birthed by the virgin mary the way people are carrying on about him. i don't care if he was a freedom fighter and spent 27 years in prison and became the first black south african president, or that they want to claim south africa the rainbow nation because of him. mother teresa did more than he did in her life time than mandela did in his.
 
Celine said:
so what. you'd swear this man was birthed by the virgin mary the way people are carrying on about him. i don't care if he was a freedom fighter and spent 27 years in prison and became the first black south african president, or that they want to claim south africa the rainbow nation because of him. mother teresa did more than he did in her life time than mandela did in his.
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That's sad.
 
Apache said:
But true.
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Well no disrespect to Mother Teresa but she was bamboozled by religion and thus sacrificed her life to helping the poor. Mandela would probably have been a lot more productive if he wasn't locked up by the Nats.
 
Fudzy said:
Well no disrespect to Mother Teresa but she was bamboozled by religion and thus sacrificed her life to helping the poor. Mandela would probably have been a lot more productive if he wasn't locked up by the Nats.
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Building more bombs yes...
 
Fudzy said:
Mandela would probably have been a lot more productive if he wasn't locked up by the Nats.
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Actually, locking him up made him more of a martyr than if he'd been free. The symbolism of his release is more powerful than any speech/bombing he could have done over those years if he we free.
 
I can actually not believe mr. Mandela is this old. Iirc the Robben Island prisoners shouldn't live longer than 65 - 68 yrs due to the long term effect of working in the limestone quarry. This could only mean that mr. Mandela got special treatment ito working in this quarry.
 
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