o/t from "Suggestions for Vodacom data network"

[JK8]

Vodacom made claims in the past about millions of users which if taken into context would actually exceed the number of people in the country that would have a cellphone. I and others pointed this out at the time. Also was the claim about signing up 100,000 customers if memory serves correct during a two week period with number portability, also pointed out to likely be existing customers just renewing their contracts.

I am not disputing that there are enough simultaneous users to warrant NATed IPs but in light of the false claims and advertising made by Vodacom in the past you have to admit that 5 million simultaneous users is an outrageous claim. Vodacom only reports 21 million customers and with most cellphones in circulation probably not gprs capable only half of those are probably using the net. It's hard if not impossible to believe that half of those would have a grps connection active all at the same time especially since they are primarily phone users and not using it for a primary net connection and even then the number of simultaneous users are usually less.

Instead of me providing facts to contradict an outrageous figure which is not a reasonable request both because I am NOT required to disprove a claim and in light of Vodacom's track record it would be better for V3g to provide facts to back up his claim instead of the usual ad hominems and non sequiturs.

I have have 4 sims, My household uses 8 + 1 My maid. Thats 13 altogether, Alot of people have more than one sim... It can easily surpass the number of individuals, also they run reports on the activations of sims and all sims that are not active for 6 months are discarded!

Whats so wrong about signing up 100 000 customers? They did 5 Million in 6 months in 2005.

Somone mentioned Mxit, thats connects atleast 800 000 Voda users, then theres Migg33, Prodigits and millions of wapsites and other applications, GPS, Mobizines, Cricketcast, BBC apps etc etc etc
Browse wap forums theres SA threads on everyone!!

 

[Syndyre]

I have have 4 sims, My household uses 8 + 1 My maid. Thats 13 altogether, Alot of people have more than one sim... It can easily surpass the number of individuals, also they run reports on the activations of sims and all sims that are not active for 6 months are discarded!

Whats so wrong about signing up 100 000 customers? They did 5 Million in 6 months in 2005.

Somone mentioned Mxit, thats connects atleast 800 000 Voda users, then theres Migg33, Prodigits and millions of wapsites and other applications, GPS, Mobizines, Cricketcast, BBC apps etc etc etc
Browse wap forums theres SA threads on everyone!!

I also have about 5 sims or so and I'm often using 3G/GPRS on 3 simultaneously so you can see how the numbers would add up quickly.

 

[Prometheus]

I have have 4 sims, My household uses 8 + 1 My maid. Thats 13 altogether, Alot of people have more than one sim... It can easily surpass the number of individuals, also they run reports on the activations of sims and all sims that are not active for 6 months are discarded!

Whats so wrong about signing up 100 000 customers? They did 5 Million in 6 months in 2005.

Somone mentioned Mxit, thats connects atleast 800 000 Voda users, then theres Migg33, Prodigits and millions of wapsites and other applications, GPS, Mobizines, Cricketcast, BBC apps etc etc etc
Browse wap forums theres SA threads on everyone!!

The problem is not with signing them up. As was pointed out at the time 100,000 users signing contracts or activating a SIM does not equate to signing up new users as was the impression Vodacom was trying to give. A cencept people does not seem to understand is what simultaneous users actually means.

 

[ginggs]

I can not agree with that figure.

I am not the one that made a claim. I do not have to disprove it or provide facts to disprove it although I have provided them.

The good old 'argument from personal incredulity', known and loved by creationists everywhere.

 

[ambo]

The good old 'argument from personal incredulity', known and loved by creationists everywhere.

Try this if you bored

 

[ic]

Not sure if there's any hope left for this thread, but I think I need to move a bunch of posts into a thread of their own so we can get this thread back on topic...

 

[ambo]

I need to move a bunch of posts into a thread of their own so we can get this thread back on topic...

Please do... we actually started off discussing some fairly important stuff

 

[ic]

Done.

 

[AirWolf]

Tell us if you believe that 5 million users are using the net all at the same time when there are only 21 million users.

Yeah, I do.

These are the only stats I could find on Mxit numbers from November 2006.

"Once you understand MXit it very important to note the impact on your relationship with your child, the possibility and probability of addiction and abuse." MXit Lifestyle (Pty) Ltd, the company who created the MXit application, states the current growth is about 10,000 new users per day. Latest stats indicate 385,000 users between 12-17 and 462,000 users between 18-25. After being released in late 2005, MXit has broken through the 2 million subscriber base in record time. And is the fastest growing cellphone application in South African history.

Also, as JK8 mentioned there are many other wap sites South African people are interested in

Also stats on how many kids have wap enabled cellphones would give you a better idea on how true V3g's statements are

 

[Prometheus]

The good old 'argument from personal incredulity', known and loved by creationists everywhere.

Are you saying someone can make an incredible claim and not back it up when asked?

Yeah, I do.

These are the only stats I could find on Mxit numbers from November 2006.


Also, as JK8 mentioned there are many other wap sites South African people are interested in

Also stats on how many kids have wap enabled cellphones would give you a better idea on how true V3g's statements are

That says NOTHING about how many users are using it at the same time. Do you know what "at the same time" means?

 

[AirWolf]

Tell us if you believe that 5 million users are using the net all at the same time when there are only 21 million users.

Are you saying someone can make an incredible claim and not back it up when asked?

That says NOTHING about how many users are using it at the same time. Do you know what "at the same time" means?

So you think people on MXIT use it say once a month?

 

[Syndyre]

The problem is not with signing them up. As was pointed out at the time 100,000 users signing contracts or activating a SIM does not equate to signing up new users as was the impression Vodacom was trying to give. A cencept people does not seem to understand is what simultaneous users actually means.

Are you saying someone can make an incredible claim and not back it up when asked?

That says NOTHING about how many users are using it at the same time. Do you know what "at the same time" means?

Do you assume everyone else is stupid?

Projection?

 

[Prometheus]

So you think people on MXIT use it say once a month?

Are you deliberately dodging the question?

Do you assume everyone else is stupid?

Projection?

If people don't get what simultaneous means and instead give total numbers that is not an assumption but a conclusion.

 

[Syndyre]

If people don't get what simultaneous means and instead give total numbers that is not an assumption but a conclusion.

True but you can infer quite a bit from total numbers and the nature of the application.

 

[vodacom3g]

The 'whoosh....' we keep on hearing is the point going over some forumites heads that you don't need to actually do anything to be attached to the data network.....

Merely turning on a GPRS phone will attach it to the network and thus use up an IP address, irrespective if you do any data related activities such as using MXiT, etc.

But, of course, we all knew this....

 

[ginggs]

What has bean counters to do with running a report of a network engine that show the number of concurrent users?

Are you saying someone can make an incredible claim and not back it up when asked?

It was only you who found it so 'incredible', because the number did not agree with what you had already decided it should be. As for backing it up, v3g clearly stated where the numbers come from, a report from a network engine, not from the marketing department, not from the bean counters.

That says NOTHING about how many users are using it at the same time. Do you know what "at the same time" means?

Concurrent, as used above, means "at the same time", I think this has been pointed out already.

 

[AirWolf]

@V3g: I didn't I made my statements based on actual data connections.

@Prometheus: You go around assuming a lot - I think Syndyre hit the nail on the head and no I'm not dodging any questions. I just think you are living in your own little simplified microcosm. Have you even seen the kids of today - more than 90% have mobile phones and fair percentage of them use mxit because it is cheaper than sms. I've seem grown men (isp techies) keep their phones logged into mxit THE WHOLE DAY because they say it is cheaper to stay in contact (but they are probably chatting up so and so's). The bottom line is these people/children are addicts and if you don't get that I can't help you.

 

[Iam3G]

Are you saying someone can make an incredible claim and not back it up when asked?

That says NOTHING about how many users are using it at the same time. Do you know what "at the same time" means?

I'm on MXit... So if my girlfriend. And my friend. And a couple of other friends, and there friends, and there girlfriends, and there girlfriends girlfriends, and i can go on and on and on... does THIS not mean AT THE SAME TIME/SIMULTANEOUSLY/CONCURRENTLY???

 

[vodacom3g]

Again, remember, if you have a data enabled phone and you switch it on, it will attach to the network and get an IP address. You don't need to actually do anything (like MXiT) to use up one IP. The phone will attach and get an IP, all by itself.

It will use (very slightly) less data to connect once (i.e. let your phone connect to GPRS and leave it connected) than to connect and disconnect every time you want to use a program like MXiT, as the handshaking to set up the connection will use a few bytes.

 

[JK8]

@ Prometheus

Go on to Mxit and see how many chatrooms are full. Theres about 50 rooms per Sub category. This will give you an indication of all the users. But still doesnt include all mxit users online.
Then Try Migg even though its international it will give you more of an idea of the numbers.
Theres another one called 2go. And then theres MSN, Gmail users...
Facebook has a mobile site.
Theres people downloading free games, apps etc. You will fall of your chair twice if you knew how many people use these Mobile add things on TV and subscribe to wallpapers and other trivial junk, they use GPRS/3G to download it.
Then theres the p0rno wapsites, they full.
Then add the VOIP users.
Bussiness people catching up on the work.
Blackberry users, Mexchange users they always connecting to their mail servers dowloading mails.
Theres call centres that are using routers and are completely wireless and open 24hours.

Those are few I can think of.... so add them altogether make a graph and you estimate the amount of GPRS users in a day, I believe there should be a constant of atleast 5000 users online at any given moment.
Then If you still bored have a look at specific regions where the usage will be much more!