o/t from "Suggestions for Vodacom data network"

[ic]

I think part of what v3g is saying, is that Vodacom's network monitoring systems allowing for running off a report of how many IP addresses are being used simultaneously|concurrently|'at the same time' at any given point in time, and this is where the 5 million figure comes from.

@v3g, is that interpretation correct?

@Prometheus, you clearly do not use MXit and therefore cannot grasp how hugely popular MXit actually is, and as has been pointed out, MXit is just one IM application that runs off of a cellphone - a friend of mine uses both MXit and something called 'Reporo' and no longer uses SMSes at all, that same friend also uses his cellphone for connecting his PC to the internet.

 

[vodacom3g]

I think part of what v3g is saying, is that Vodacom's network monitoring systems allowing for running off a report of how many IP addresses are being used simultaneously|concurrently|'at the same time' at any given point in time, and this is where the 5 million figure comes from.

@v3g, is that interpretation correct?

@Prometheus, you clearly do not use MXit and therefore cannot grasp how hugely popular MXit actually is, and as has been pointed out, MXit is just one IM application that runs off of a cellphone - a friend of mine uses both MXit and something called 'Reporo' and no longer uses SMSes at all, that same friend also uses his cellphone for connecting his PC to the internet.

Pretty much. There are a number of places where one can measure the concurrent data users, including the number of PDP attachments to the network, number of IP's issues from the pools, etc.

Again (and I keep on stressing this), a user does not need to know or have any desire to go on-line to be issued with an IP. If the phone is configured for data, it'll automatically attach and get issued an IP.

 

[ginggs]

Again (and I keep on stressing this), a user does not need to know or have any desire to go on-line to be issued with an IP. If the phone is configured for data, it'll automatically attach and get issued an IP.

I've noticed some phones with Vodafone firmwares (Vlive! branded) default to always establishing a GPRS connection, must be a conspiracy to bolster Vodacom's number of concurrent users!

 

[ambo]

must be a conspiracy to bolster Vodacom's number of concurrent users!

I would hope that the network engineers would not bow to this sort of silliness from the bean counters as v3g mentioned the benefits of keeping the connection open can sometimes outweigh the overheads on the network.

 

[vodacom3g]

I've noticed some phones with Vodafone firmwares (Vlive! branded) default to always establishing a GPRS connection, must be a conspiracy to bolster Vodacom's number of concurrent users!

Yes, gives us bragging rights...

I suspect it's becoming more and more the default to have it automatically provisioned.

 

[Prometheus]

It was only you who found it so 'incredible', because the number did not agree with what you had already decided it should be. As for backing it up, v3g clearly stated where the numbers come from, a report from a network engine, not from the marketing department, not from the bean counters.

Assumptions...

@Prometheus: You go around assuming a lot - I think Syndyre hit the nail on the head and no I'm not dodging any questions. I just think you are living in your own little simplified microcosm. Have you even seen the kids of today - more than 90% have mobile phones and fair percentage of them use mxit because it is cheaper than sms. I've seem grown men (isp techies) keep their phones logged into mxit THE WHOLE DAY because they say it is cheaper to stay in contact (but they are probably chatting up so and so's). The bottom line is these people/children are addicts and if you don't get that I can't help you.

No, actually you are the one showing his assumptions openly. It is clear to me that you didn't put any thought into those numbers to see if they could possibly hold up and only assume it to be correct because you assume the source to be reliable. Your attempt to pass off total numbers for concurrent numbers shows that you don't have an idea of how to go about it.

@ Prometheus

Go on to Mxit and see how many chatrooms are full. Theres about 50 rooms per Sub category. This will give you an indication of all the users. But still doesnt include all mxit users online.
Then Try Migg even though its international it will give you more of an idea of the numbers.
Theres another one called 2go. And then theres MSN, Gmail users...
Facebook has a mobile site.
Theres people downloading free games, apps etc. You will fall of your chair twice if you knew how many people use these Mobile add things on TV and subscribe to wallpapers and other trivial junk, they use GPRS/3G to download it.
Then theres the p0rno wapsites, they full.
Then add the VOIP users.
Bussiness people catching up on the work.
Blackberry users, Mexchange users they always connecting to their mail servers dowloading mails.
Theres call centres that are using routers and are completely wireless and open 24hours.

Those are few I can think of.... so add them altogether make a graph and you estimate the amount of GPRS users in a day, I believe there should be a constant of atleast 5000 users online at any given moment.
Then If you still bored have a look at specific regions where the usage will be much more!

I think you summed it up nicely. People don't stay attached to the network all day. Many people use it for different applications and when they are finished they close the connection. They don't all stay on for the whole day, if this was the case as some here suggests you would go on MXit and see EVERYONE online.

You open a connection (or it happens automatically for you) to download your email and when it is finished or you close your email client the connection closes. Many grownups are on MXit, they have other work to do and can't stay on the whole day. Besides that even your children can not keep the connection going all day when they are suppose to be in school. Many schools don't even allow them to have cellphones or to have them turned on.

I think part of what v3g is saying, is that Vodacom's network monitoring systems allowing for running off a report of how many IP addresses are being used simultaneously|concurrently|'at the same time' at any given point in time, and this is where the 5 million figure comes from.

@v3g, is that interpretation correct?

@Prometheus, you clearly do not use MXit and therefore cannot grasp how hugely popular MXit actually is, and as has been pointed out, MXit is just one IM application that runs off of a cellphone - a friend of mine uses both MXit and something called 'Reporo' and no longer uses SMSes at all, that same friend also uses his cellphone for connecting his PC to the internet.

Actually the MXit usage figures here were less than what I expected. The problem I have with seeing a report from Vodacom's system as reliable is that it can not even given give real time figures to contract users which can be out by an hour or more. I can not see how such a system can give real time AND accurate figures on anything else.

I've noticed some phones with Vodafone firmwares (Vlive! branded) default to always establishing a GPRS connection, must be a conspiracy to bolster Vodacom's number of concurrent users!

My Nokia default to "only when needed". Nokias are quite popular.

 

[AirWolf]

So when will you be visiting planet earth again? After I said what I've seen with my own eyes you contradict me.

 

[ambo]

Actually the MXit usage figures here were less than what I expected. The problem I have with seeing a report from Vodacom's system as reliable is that it can not even given give real time figures to contract users which can be out by an hour or more. I can not see how such a system can give real time AND accurate figures on anything else.

Are you talking about the usage billing system? Do you actually have any idea of how these sort of network accounting systems work?

My Nokia default to "only when needed". Nokias are quite popular.

Now who is making assumptions

 

[ic]

Assumptions...
...
I think you summed it up nicely. People don't stay attached to the network all day. Many people use it for different applications and when they are finished they close the connection. They don't all stay on for the whole day, if this was the case as some here suggests you would go on MXit and see EVERYONE online.

You open a connection (or it happens automatically for you) to download your email and when it is finished or you close your email client the connection closes. Many grownups are on MXit, they have other work to do and can't stay on the whole day. Besides that even your children can not keep the connection going all day when they are suppose to be in school. Many schools don't even allow them to have cellphones or to have them turned on.

Maybe you only use your phone for one thing at a time Mr Freddy Flintstone, but there are many people in this world of ours that stay connected the whole day - with MXit and anything else running, and they will only start to close off applications when they aren't near a charger cable & their battery starts running flat.

You are the person making assumptions that everyone else lives in the stone age.

 

[Prometheus]

So when will you be visiting planet earth again? After I said what I've seen with my own eyes you contradict me.

And exactly what is it you've supposedly seen that should convince me otherwise. You still have not gotten back with any statistics about the number of simultaneous (concurrent) users instead of the total number of users.

Are you talking about the usage billing system? Do you actually have any idea of how these sort of network accounting systems work?

Partly yes. And yes I have a pretty good idea of at least how it should work. The question is of course does it work like it should as we have seen with databundles.

Now who is making assumptions

Nokias are quite popular.

Maybe you only use your phone for one thing at a time Mr Freddy Flintstone, but there are many people in this world of ours that stay connected the whole day - with MXit and anything else running, and they will only start to close off applications when they aren't near a charger cable & their battery starts running flat.

You are the person making assumptions that everyone else lives in the stone age.

Many maybe, although we won't know the actual statistics. I am not assuming that everybody lives in your version of the "stone age" but also know that being South Africa things are not always as good as we would like them to be. I would like to know if Sipho living in park 6 shack 4 leaves his phone connected to gprs all, that's when Sipho keeps sending "please call me"s to everybody he doesn't know because he doesn't have any money to make a call himself. I would like to know if Sipho even has a gprs capable phone.

My phone has been lying here on the table for days now without making a connection and many other people don't care about all this techno-bling garbeage and prefer to live in your "stone age". Just because someone sees some technicians who keeps their connection going all day does not make it representative of the whole country.

 

[Syndyre]

Maybe you only use your phone for one thing at a time Mr Freddy Flintstone, but there are many people in this world of ours that stay connected the whole day - with MXit and anything else running, and they will only start to close off applications when they aren't near a charger cable & their battery starts running flat.

You are the person making assumptions that everyone else lives in the stone age.

Exactly, I'm usually connected permanently on my laptop, then almost always on 1, often 2 phones so that's 3 concurrent connections and I'm sure plenty of people do the same thing.

 

[JK8]

My phone has been lying here on the table for days now wihtout making a connection and many other people don't care about all this techno-bling garbeage and prefer to live in your "stone age". Just because someone sees some technicians who keeps their connection going all day does not make it representative of the whole country.

You wrong.... People like you taught about the same thing about 3G devices 2 years ago. How many people use 3G phones? Every second one!!!

I stunned you even know how to use the internet lol, but really cellphone technology has been growing for years and the youth are grasping it with both hands!! Youd be shocked at what they know.

Dont be so ignorant, I guess you not exposed to what people know or what they doing, be more observant.

 

[Iam3G]

He's also forgetting about the large amount of Blackberry users out there, as Blackberry has the "Always On" feature.

 

[JK8]

He's also forgetting about the large amount of Blackberry users out there, as Blackberry has the "Always On" feature.

Ye I mentioned that but something more than BB is Microsoft Exchange, those can download full size emails, throughout the day.

 

[Iam3G]

Ye I mentioned that but something more than BB is Microsoft Exchange, those can download full size emails, throughout the day.

Oh right. Didnt see that. I just posted that now because it just hit me randomly.

 

[ic]

Maybe you only use your phone for one thing at a time Mr Freddy Flintstone, but there are many people in this world of ours that stay connected the whole day - with MXit and anything else running, and they will only start to close off applications when they aren't near a charger cable & their battery starts running flat.

You are the person making assumptions that everyone else lives in the stone age.

Many maybe, although we won't know the actual statistics. I am not assuming that everybody lives in your version of the "stone age" but also know that being South Africa things are not always as good as we would like them to be. I would like to know if Sipho living in park 6 shack 4 leaves his phone connected to gprs all, that's when Sipho keeps sending "please call me"s to everybody he doesn't know because he doesn't have any money to make a call himself. I would like to know if Sipho even has a gprs capable phone.

My phone has been lying here on the table for days now without making a connection and many other people don't care about all this techno-bling garbeage and prefer to live in your "stone age". Just because someone sees some technicians who keeps their connection going all day does not make it representative of the whole country.

While I am obviously not your definition of "Sipho", it is necessary to caution you at this point - your post borders on racism since you appear to be assuming that all 'Siphos' prefer to use "please call me" messages all day and are not clever enough to use an application like MXit.

The beauty of an Instant Messenger application like MXit, is that it is very low cost and one can stay connected and in-touch all day. IMO it is more likely that the poor youth of today would stop making expensive pre-paid calls and sending SMSes, and instead use an IM application like MXit to keep cellular costs as low as possible as well as the fact that social networking is hugely popular - even in Africa - despite what you believe to the contrary - people like to stay in touch and be reachable all the time.

At this point I have to ask what you hope to achieve with this discussion, what is your objective here? - do you want all of us to conform to your way of thinking? - I don't see that happening.

 

[AirWolf]

And exactly what is it you've supposedly seen that should convince me otherwise. You still have not gotten back with any statistics about the number of simultaneous (concurrent) users instead of the total number of users.

Actually you are the one that disbelieves V3g's stats obtained from the system which everyone (myself included) think are realistic. Seeing that you don't believe these figures, the onus is on you to prove that these figures are incorrect. Lengthy rambling prove squat Empty vessels make the most noise

 

[Prometheus]

You wrong.... People like you taught about the same thing about 3G devices 2 years ago. How many people use 3G phones? Every second one!!!

I stunned you even know how to use the internet lol, but really cellphone technology has been growing for years and the youth are grasping it with both hands!! Youd be shocked at what they know.

Dont be so ignorant, I guess you not exposed to what people know or what they doing, be more observant.

While I am obviously not your definition of "Sipho", it is necessary to caution you at this point - your post borders on racism since you appear to be assuming that all 'Siphos' prefer to use "please call me" messages all day and are not clever enough to use an application like MXit.

The beauty of an Instant Messenger application like MXit, is that it is very low cost and one can stay connected and in-touch all day. IMO it is more likely that the poor youth of today would stop making expensive pre-paid calls and sending SMSes, and instead use an IM application like MXit to keep cellular costs as low as possible as well as the fact that social networking is hugely popular - even in Africa - despite what you believe to the contrary - people like to stay in touch and be reachable all the time.

At this point I have to ask what you hope to achieve with this discussion, what is your objective here? - do you want all of us to conform to your way of thinking? - I don't see that happening.

Oh yes the old rasicm card when someone states a simple fact of life and from a forum representative no less. What is my objective? I didn't have any objective as you may think but I will not bow to Vodacom's "might and power" just because some forumites would prefer it this way. Actually this has gone far beyond just pointing out statistics that are likely off.

It seems some people will just disagree for the sake of disagreeing. If you noticed this at all JK8 actually came up with a figure for concurrent users which is far of the mark from V3g's 5million post but still manages to disagree which gives me the impression people don't know what they are actually arguing about or what the word "c-o-n-c-u-r-r-e-n-t" means. I would like to see how this figure gets inflated by at least a thousand fold which is what's needed to justify the original claim.

Actually you are the one that disbelieves V3g's stats obtained from the system which everyone (myself included) think are realistic. Seeing that you don't believe these figures, the onus is on you to prove that these figures are incorrect. Lengthy rambling prove squat Empty vessels make the most noise

You are wrong there. It's up to the person who makes the assertion to prove it, not the person who disagrees with it to prove it wrong. If the person isn't interested to prove it there is no automatic reason anyone should have to agree with it. You have actually put up very little real statistics to show the assertion correct, I have given some real plausible statistics in my arguments. Now what was that about empty vessels again...

 

[Iam3G]

Actually you are the one that disbelieves V3g's stats obtained from the system which everyone (myself included) think are realistic. Seeing that you don't believe these figures, the onus is on you to prove that these figures are incorrect. Lengthy rambling prove squat Empty vessels make the most noise

I second that!

 

[AirWolf]

Actually you are the one that disbelieves V3g's stats obtained from the system which everyone (myself included) think are realistic. Seeing that you don't believe these figures, the onus is on you to prove that these figures are incorrect. Lengthy rambling prove squat Empty vessels make the most noise

Oh yes the old rasicm card when someone states a simple fact of life and from a forum representative no less. What is my objective? I didn't have any objective as you may think but I will not bow to Vodacom's "might and power" just because some forumites would prefer it this way. Actually this has gone far beyond just pointing out statistics that are likely off.

It seems some people will just disagree for the sake of disagreeing. If you noticed this at all JK8 actually came up with a figure for concurrent users which is far of the mark from V3g's 5million post but still manages to disagree which gives me the impression people don't know what they are actually arguing about or what the word "c-o-n-c-u-r-r-e-n-t" means. I would like to see how this figure gets inflated by at least a thousand fold which is what's needed to justify the original claim.

You are wrong there. It's up to the person who makes the assertion to prove it, not the person who disagrees with it to prove it wrong. If the person isn't interested to prove it there is no automatic reason anyone should have to agree with it. You have actually put up very little real statistics to show the assertion correct, I have given some real plausible statistics in my arguments. Now what was that about empty vessels again...

As the old cliche goes: I rest my case