Official Man United Supporters' Thread

[hawker]

Welbeck is kark! he needs to go! If it was Hernandez, Rooney, RVP that would have been goal

Neuer is still an incredible keeper. It was an amazing save that kept Welbeck out.

 

[RanzB]

Neuer is still an incredible keeper. It was an amazing save that kept Welbeck out.

Not that I think that Welbeck is ***, but it didn't look like it was going to go in anyway. Still, good save.

 

[Wall]

Not that I think that Welbeck is ***, but it didn't look like it was going to go in anyway. Still, good save.

Welbeck just the wrong option. He should have sided footed it either side of Neuer.

Neuer is an amazing keeper though!

 

[thestaggy]

Neuer is still an incredible keeper. It was an amazing save that kept Welbeck out.

Neuer is a fine 'keeper, but I doubt it would have gone in.

1) Judging by where he actually connected the ball it looked it was going wide.
2) Judging by how softly he hit it and taking into account Martinez's position, it would have possibly been intercepted before reaching the goal if he managed to get it past Neuer.

Terrible decision. Terrible technique. He should have tried to fire it hard and low to Neuer's left or just tried to use his pace and round Neuer.

 

[Unhappy1]

I've also said enough about this now, so for the sake of us not having to end up repeating ourselves I'm going to agree to disagree with you. We have differing opinions on Moyes and the talent at hand and we won't change one another's opinions, and that is okay.

Ok that's fine and i do actually agree with a lot of what you're saying, i would however like to offer up an opinion on one section of your post.

Yes, they are spoilt for choice in the the #10 and striking positions, but the glaring weaknesses and deficiencies are in the midfield and wide positions, so for all their prowess the support and service they get is not as good as it can be. Also, the midfield was found wanting at times under Fergie as well.

The wide options are equally limited. Januzaj seems to be a real talent, but he's nowhere near the finished product. No reason why he cannot play on the left for the next 10-years, but right now he's no Silva/Hazard/Ribery. Mata and Kagawa are not wingers and do not perform when out wide.

We are spoilt for #10 and Mata isnt the best out wide i agree, so it concerns me that he was bought and doesnt really address the issue, Fellaini doesn't really address the issue either and thats nearly 70 million spent that doesnt address the issues. It concerns me that Moyes will almost waste another 100 million plus on buying players that dont really fit together and have bedding in problems. Next season will be one of Manchester Uniteds most important seasons in their history imo and can quite easily shape its future.

 

[Unhappy1]

Except you haven't. Using one game's lineup to illustrate context across an entire season doesn't cut it, especially when it's not the timeline we're referencing.

I didn't only use one line up though, if you go back you can see i posted other squad averages. Btw what other line up's do you think we would put out that will drastically change the average age?

Yes and no. There is a lack of quality in some younger players, that isn't a biggy. All clubs have this, they're fringe players who aren't thought of as first teamers, but as fill-ins. It's impractical and pretty much impossible to have an entire squad made up of first-team quality players. What I'm talking about is the discrepancy in the ages between our top players, an era leaving, and the era coming in. I consider some of the younger players to be future first-teamers, but not yet ready to be in the first team. This is what I meant by your illustration of City's players versus ours, as in they have an entire first team in their prime, averaging out the age to around 28, while we have older players who are instrumental to our first team, balanced out with younger players who might not be ready to be in the first team, bringing down our average age.

Ah, you see what you're now describing is squad balance and not an ageing squad per se, squad balance i can agree with.

And I cited that as a contributing factor.

Yup i know, but i get the feeling you dont think its as big a factor as what i think.

To some extent, but not as first team regulars, and definitely not in the roles they'll be playing in. Smalling as RB. Jones as CDM. This is my point.

Ok thats fair enough and in that regard im also a little disappointed in Moyes, i know Ferguson played them out of position also but he could at least point to Vidic, Ferdinand and/or Evans playing well.

 

[fishfly]

Neuer is still an incredible keeper. It was an amazing save that kept Welbeck out.

All credit to the keeper, but given anyone else besides Welbeck do you think Nauer would have a chance?

How many times have we seen Welbeck get into excellent positions only to kick the ball out or kick the ball straight at the keeper? His positioning out left tends to end up standing in front of RVP/Rooney/whoever is playing ST... His defence is crap, crossing is non existent and shooting ability is worse then beckham's kid:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ster-United-David-Beckham-wont-join-club.html

 

[thestaggy]

Ok that's fine and i do actually agree with a lot of what you're saying, i would however like to offer up an opinion on one section of your post.



We are spoilt for #10 and Mata isnt the best out wide i agree, so it concerns me that he was bought and doesnt really address the issue, Fellaini doesn't really address the issue either and thats nearly 70 million spent that doesnt address the issues. It concerns me that Moyes will almost waste another 100 million plus on buying players that dont really fit together and have bedding in problems. Next season will be one of Manchester Uniteds most important seasons in their history imo and can quite easily shape its future.

My take on Mata;

There is no chemistry between RVP & Moyes. Like Fergie, for some retarded reason Moyes does not appreciate Kagawa as a #10. Mata's signing is preparing the ground for a possible RVP and/or Kagawa exit. In this scenario Rooney is moved back to the striking position and Mata becomes the #10 or if RVP stays there are options at 10. Also, RVP's age. Either way, I think Mata is a contingency plan while Kagawa & RVP are not in Moyes' long-term vision?

I understand the reasoning behind Fellaini's signing, the midfield did and still does need some bite (Fellaini hasn't yet addressed that). Most of the mids mentioned were of the tenacious variety. It is just the damn price. Fellaini is exactly the type of squad player you could do with in the Premier League. Nothing refined about him, but he'll allow you to rest/protect your ''cultured'' midfielder when having to travel to Stoke, Hull, West Ham, etc.

I could be wrong and you could be right and Moyes has bungled on his player choice. But thinking back to his Everton days, Moyes' teams were well-drilled and everyone was comfortable in their position. Nothing flash but everyone knew what they were there to do. His three major positional shifts were converting Jagielka into an accomplished CB from a midfielder, converting Fellaini into a good #10 and turning Cahill into a goal-scoring striker from a CAM. I doubt Mata and Kagawa can be turned into wingers, but his history indicates Moyes is adept at getting players to fit in, even if it is something they've never done before. Hence I think he needs time to do things his way.

I'm pretty sure the board will also monitor his targets before handing over the cash. Mata & Fellaini were desperation buys.

 

[RanzB]

I didn't only use one line up though, if you go back you can see i posted other squad averages. Btw what other line up's do you think we would put out that will drastically change the average age?

What do you mean? You posted the average age of one team we put out. That isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

Ah, you see what you're now describing is squad balance and not an ageing squad per se, squad balance i can agree with.

Which is what was always insinuated. Sorry, maybe just me.

Yup i know, but i get the feeling you dont think its as big a factor as what i think.

I think it's a big factor even if it's a small one, because the effect is exacerbated by having all the other problems combined into the mediocrity we've seen on the pitch this season.

Ok thats fair enough and in that regard im also a little disappointed in Moyes, i know Ferguson played them out of position also but he could at least point to Vidic, Ferdinand and/or Evans playing well.

Disappointed in Moyes? How so? He's using them in their actual positions for the most part.

 

[RanzB]

My take on Mata;

There is no chemistry between RVP & Moyes.

You mean RvP and Rooney? Or RvP and Moyes? Good post otherwise, I hope we keep Kagawa and use him more.

 

[Unhappy1]

What do you mean? You posted the average age of one team we put out. That isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

Also the average age of the entire squad.

Disappointed in Moyes? How so? He's using them in their actual positions for the most part.

Not enough for my liking, Smalling has played RB and Jones has played CM this season a few too many times. Although i will admit, injuries haven't helped in that regard, which leads me to another issue and thats our defence seems to get injured way too easily (under Fergie and Moyes).

 

[Unhappy1]

My take on Mata;

There is no chemistry between RVP & Moyes. Like Fergie, for some retarded reason Moyes does not appreciate Kagawa as a #10. Mata's signing is preparing the ground for a possible RVP and/or Kagawa exit. In this scenario Rooney is moved back to the striking position and Mata becomes the #10 or if RVP stays there are options at 10. Also, RVP's age. Either way, I think Mata is a contingency plan while Kagawa & RVP are not in Moyes' long-term vision?

I understand the reasoning behind Fellaini's signing, the midfield did and still does need some bite (Fellaini hasn't yet addressed that). Most of the mids mentioned were of the tenacious variety. It is just the damn price. Fellaini is exactly the type of squad player you could do with in the Premier League. Nothing refined about him, but he'll allow you to rest/protect your ''cultured'' midfielder when having to travel to Stoke, Hull, West Ham, etc.

I could be wrong and you could be right and Moyes has bungled on his player choice. But thinking back to his Everton days, Moyes' teams were well-drilled and everyone was comfortable in their position. Nothing flash but everyone knew what they were there to do. His three major positional shifts were converting Jagielka into an accomplished CB from a midfielder, converting Fellaini into a good #10 and turning Cahill into a goal-scoring striker from a CAM. I doubt Mata and Kagawa can be turned into wingers, but his history indicates Moyes is adept at getting players to fit in, even if it is something they've never done before. Hence I think he needs time to do things his way.

I'm pretty sure the board will also monitor his targets before handing over the cash. Mata & Fellaini were desperation buys.

I largely agree with this post if the speculation turns out to be true. Im happy to see how Moyes performs for the rest of the season and then review things afterwards, however i will probably be disappointed if someone like Jurgen Klopp becomes available in the summer and we decide to stick with Moyes.

 

[RanzB]

Also the average age of the entire squad.

And I've explained my problem with those numbers.

Not enough for my liking, Smalling has played RB and Jones has played CM this season a few too many times. Although i will admit, injuries haven't helped in that regard, which leads me to another issue and thats our defence seems to get injured way too easily (under Fergie and Moyes).

Yeah, injuries have been the problem, and pretty much the only time they've been played out of place. Jones does seem a lot stronger this season though, last season every time he made a hefty tackle he'd be out for a couple of weeks. I guess he's finally finishing growing into his body.

 

[RanzB]

I largely agree with this post if the speculation turns out to be true. Im happy to see how Moyes performs for the rest of the season and then review things afterwards, however i will probably be disappointed if someone like Jurgen Klopp becomes available in the summer and we decide to stick with Moyes.

I don't reckon Klopp will leave Dortmund soon unless he gets tired of their lack of budget.

 

[Unhappy1]

I don't reckon Klopp will leave Dortmund soon unless he gets tired of their lack of budget.

Im not saying hes going to, was just using him as an example

 

[thestaggy]

You mean RvP and Rooney? Or RvP and Moyes? Good post otherwise, I hope we keep Kagawa and use him more.

That too, but I get the feeling Moyes cannot motivate RVP. I think the training regime issue may have caused problems.

I largely agree with this post if the speculation turns out to be true. Im happy to see how Moyes performs for the rest of the season and then review things afterwards, however i will probably be disappointed if someone like Jurgen Klopp becomes available in the summer and we decide to stick with Moyes.

I'm just an armchair analyst, but there were only two managers I'd have considered for the job; Moyes and Klopp. Moyes because he is like Fergie in that he has (well at least, had) a sense of stability about him and he was effective with minimal transfer funds. Managerial stability is a major reason behind United being what they are. Klopp because of what he can do with youth and again, he can find some gems with little money. Klopp is also a bit of a football genius.

 

[RexxGrim]

I don't reckon Klopp will leave Dortmund soon unless he gets tired of their lack of budget.

Klopp seems the ambitions type. Now point in seeing all your work undone when your best players go to Bayern every transfer window.

I think he'll be wanting a move sooner rather than later. He has proved to be a manager of some worth already, pointless hitting you head against a brick wall much longer. Just my opinion though.

 

[Unhappy1]

I'm just an armchair analyst, but there were only two managers I'd have considered for the job; Moyes and Klopp. Moyes because he is like Fergie in that he has (well at least, had) a sense of stability about him and he was effective with minimal transfer funds. Managerial stability is a major reason behind United being what they are. Klopp because of what he can do with youth and again, he can find some gems with little money. Klopp is also a bit of a football genius.

Well one thing is for certain is that if United do fire Moyes, then they would probably have a shift in thinking regarding the managerial role and having long term mangers. You're right Moyes does bring stability in that sense but i would also rate Klopp in that area also. Regarding Moyes and transfer funds it certainly hasnt worked out like that in the short term but if hes here after 5 years then things might change.

Klopp seems the ambitions type. Now point in seeing all your work undone when your best players go to Bayern every transfer window.

I think he'll be wanting a move sooner rather than later. He has proved to be a manager of some worth already, pointless hitting you head against a brick wall much longer. Just my opinion though.

Klopps words were "i dont want to become the Ferguson of Dortmund", so yes he will be on the move at some point but when and where to is uncertain.

 

[hawker]

Chelsea's wage bill overtaken by Manchester United for first time since 2004

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...united-for-first-time-since-2004-9236438.html

Chelsea's wage bill has been overtaken by Manchester United's for the first time in more than a decade, it can be revealed.

In 2004, the Roman Abramovich-owned club were reckoned to be the biggest payers in world football as Chelsea spent heavily to challenge United's dominance.

Ten years on, and Manchester City are now easily the biggest payers in the Premier League, and Chelsea's accounts lodged with Companies House show that they are now in third spot in the 'wages league' below United as well.

Chelsea's wage bill in 2012/13 was £176million compared to £182million for Manchester United in the same season, while Manchester City's was £233million.

Chelsea's salary bill for the season also includes £4million paid during the course of the year to former manager Roberto Di Matteo - the accounts say the sum is for "termination payments and compensation in relation to changes in the first-team management structure".

The increasingly-prudent approach to wages at Chelsea reflects the club's commitment to complying with UEFA's financial fair play rules, where clubs in European competition can only record losses of 45million euros (£37.5m) during the first two-year accounting period.

Chelsea have also benefited from signing the likes of Eden Hazard, Oscar and Juan Mata before they were established superstars demanding huge salaries, which also has taken the pressure off the wage bill.

Wages at the Stamford Bridge club actually fell overall in 2011/12, and the rise last season was around three per cent compared to an 11.6% increase at United.

In terms of UEFA's spending rules, Chelsea Football Club Ltd's accounts state: "The introduction of UEFA's financial fair play regulations from the 2011/12 season provides a significant challenge.

"The football club needs to continue to balance success on the field together with the financial imperatives of this new regime."

The latest figure are in stark contrast to 10 years ago when

Deloitte's annual football finance review estimated Chelsea's wage bill of £115million in 2003/04 as "almost certainly the highest in world football".

In that year, Roman Abramovich's first full season of ownership of Chelsea, the club registered a 110 per cent increase in wages.

PA

Interesting stuff.

 

[Stickfigure]

Rooney out of today's game and possibly Bayern game as well.