Official Man United Supporters' Thread

[thestaggy]

So like I said, Kroos to pull the strings and Carvalho as the more defensive minded midfielder who can play in a holding role.

Could work, but that's around 80 million pounds in one area. They still need a long-term LB, possibly an experienced CB and can justify another winger should they (hopefully) offload Nani and Young.

They will have to sell to supplement the transfer kitty if they want to go big, much like Chelsea will need to offload the majority of their strike force in order to re-tool it.

Let's look at the ''big four'' they're rumoured to be interested in;

Kroos - 40 million
Carvalho - 37 million
Reus - 35 million
Shaw - 30 million

They can justify all of them, but that is a massive amount of money in one window. They could offset around 25 million by selling RVP, Nani, Young and possibly Zaha as Leicester are reportedly interested. Fellaini will be expendable if they sign Carvalho too, so they could recoup ~40 million in total. Kagawa could also be a make-weight in a potential Reus deal.

One thing though, if Moyes adds players like Kroos and Reus he will need to start evolving his footballing philosophy. His spaced and near-rigid 4-4-2 system had its merits at Everton and may still have value against technically superior teams at United, such as the Bayern ties, but it simply will not get the best out of players like Mata, Kroos, Reus & Januzaj. I believe he'll need to start shifting towards a flexible 4-4-2 that can morph into a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-1-1 and sees its midfielders more closely-knitted. Kroos will be a bomb if Moyes forces him into a sideways passing mid in a 4-4-2.

That is one of the criticisms leveled at both Fergie and Moyes with regards to Cleverley. Martinez believes he is more of Continental player than an English player. He isn't about tackling and charges into the box to bomb home goals, a la Scholes and Gerrard. He's a passer that likes to link up with players around him through the middle. Fergie and Moyes are all about ''Get it out wide''. The creativity was always out wide with Beckham, Giggs and Ronaldo. Scholes, Keane and Carrick were just there to facilitate the wide play, with Scholes adding a third option in and around the box. Okay, in fairness to Fergie and Scholes there was a bit more emphasis on the central channels than there is currently under Moyes, but still, it's always been about the traditional #7 & #11 and having a lethal #9 in the box.

 

[thestaggy]

United playing all relegation teams which is all difficult games.

True, they can be tricky, but after the way they saw off West Ham and Newcastle away (tough away opponents, I might add) in recent weeks I'm confident there will be no more ''and club x has beaten United for the first time in 2000 years''.

 

[Wall]

http://www.svenskafans.com/image/forum/7/17674393/17674393_143963_242813.jpeg

 

[droidx]

http://www.svenskafans.com/image/forum/7/17674393/17674393_143963_242813.jpeg

Only problem with that is that there is no Stretford end at the Allianz arena :-D

 

[mercurial]

Anyway, those 20 seconds of hope last night were great.

Everyone makes this mistake. They didn't score 20 seconds after we did. They scored 20 seconds after the restart. It was 2 minutes later.

 

[hawker]

Also when asked if no Champions League football will affect their ability to sign players he says the players they have been quietly speaking to are still keen as they know it will be a ''short thing'' (time away from the Champions League).

How do they know this?

 

[Unhappy1]

Fellaini would never be sold by Moyes next season Staggy.

 

[KOPITE]

Could work, but that's around 80 million pounds in one area. They still need a long-term LB, possibly an experienced CB and can justify another winger should they (hopefully) offload Nani and Young.

They will have to sell to supplement the transfer kitty if they want to go big, much like Chelsea will need to offload the majority of their strike force in order to re-tool it.

Let's look at the ''big four'' they're rumoured to be interested in;

Kroos - 40 million
Carvalho - 37 million
Reus - 35 million
Shaw - 30 million

They can justify all of them, but that is a massive amount of money in one window. They could offset around 25 million by selling RVP, Nani, Young and possibly Zaha as Leicester are reportedly interested. Fellaini will be expendable if they sign Carvalho too, so they could recoup ~40 million in total. Kagawa could also be a make-weight in a potential Reus deal.

One thing though, if Moyes adds players like Kroos and Reus he will need to start evolving his footballing philosophy. His spaced and near-rigid 4-4-2 system had its merits at Everton and may still have value against technically superior teams at United, such as the Bayern ties, but it simply will not get the best out of players like Mata, Kroos, Reus & Januzaj. I believe he'll need to start shifting towards a flexible 4-4-2 that can morph into a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-1-1 and sees its midfielders more closely-knitted. Kroos will be a bomb if Moyes forces him into a sideways passing mid in a 4-4-2.

That is one of the criticisms leveled at both Fergie and Moyes with regards to Cleverley. Martinez believes he is more of Continental player than an English player. He isn't about tackling and charges into the box to bomb home goals, a la Scholes and Gerrard. He's a passer that likes to link up with players around him through the middle. Fergie and Moyes are all about ''Get it out wide''. The creativity was always out wide with Beckham, Giggs and Ronaldo. Scholes, Keane and Carrick were just there to facilitate the wide play, with Scholes adding a third option in and around the box. Okay, in fairness to Fergie and Scholes there was a bit more emphasis on the central channels than there is currently under Moyes, but still, it's always been about the traditional #7 & #11 and having a lethal #9 in the box.

Its not that simple man. there is alot of factors to consider.

1) do the players really want to join a team with no Champions League
2) Can Utd afford all these players
3) can they pay the high wages every week
4) Woodward and Moyes running the show behind the scenes
5) Do they wana play under Moyes and his tactics

To many factors IMO ATM

 

[thestaggy]

How do they know this?

Because the resources at the club's disposal and its pedigree. If Moyes blows chunks all over next season they will rope in a Klopp, no doubt.

 

[ISP cash cow]

Because the resources at the club's disposal and its pedigree. If Moyes blows chunks all over next season they will rope in a Klopp, no doubt.

Personally I think Man Utd want to stay with a British Manager and I think that was the reason for the Moyes appointment. I don't think they want a non UK manager to manage them.

I could be wrong but that is just my gut feeling on this.

 

[Unhappy1]

Its not that simple man. there is alot of factors to consider.

1) do the players really want to join a team with no Champions League
2) Can Utd afford all these players
3) can they pay the high wages every week
4) Woodward and Moyes running the show behind the scenes
5) Do they wana play under Moyes and his tactics

To many factors IMO ATM

3 factors really: Finance, champions league and Moyes.

Personally I think Man Utd want to stay with a British Manager and I think that was the reason for the Moyes appointment. I don't think they want a non UK manager to manage them.

I could be wrong but that is just my gut feeling on this.

Whilst being British is no doubt a positive for United, i doubt they would be so narrow minded.

 

[thestaggy]

Its not that simple man. there is alot of factors to consider.

1) do the players really want to join a team with no Champions League

Its ONE season. ONE. This isn't Liverpool in the middle of a two-decade long championship drought and no Champions League football in 4 years. The giant has stumbled, not gone into terminal decline.

2) Can Utd afford all these players

Rumours range from a 100 - 200 million war chest, so yes, I believe United can afford one big transfer window. Maybe not all four players, but they will be able to sign at least two-three world class talents and I think it is all they need for now. Two/three quality talents in key positions.

3) can they pay the high wages every week

By releasing/selling players to accommodate them, yes. Ashley Young earns a reported 110k a week, Nani earns 90k. Marco Reus earns about 65k a week. RVP is expendable. 200k a week. That will satisfy Kroos. Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand and Giggs combine for an estimated 380k per week in wages. Pretty much all of those players can and most probably will be moved on. United can free up nearly 800k per week in wages by shifting dead wood. They could actually sign quality players and trim the budget.

I'm probably over-simplifying it, but there are players who are not up to scratch, out of favour or past their sell-by date that are eating up a significant portion of the wage bill.

4) Woodward and Moyes running the show behind the scenes

Yes, they fluffed last summer's window, but they should have learnt. Gill should have stayed for a season or two. The side has also looked better the past month, that indicates Moyes may be getting his feet under the table.

5) Do they wana play under Moyes and his tactics

This no one knows, but clearly guys like Januzaj, Rooney and Mata have been up for it. Kagawa and Chicarito when they get a chance. Could do worse than RVP's whinging dik-bek and Evra turning it in after 60 minutes.

Lots of questions, yes, but far from the abyss people try to make it.

 

[thestaggy]

Fellaini would never be sold by Moyes next season Staggy.

I agree, it would be bad for him, but just pointing out that there are options to bolster the available cash by selling what's not needed/wanted/working.

 

[Maverick Jester]

United has:
Manchester United v Norwich City
Manchester United v Sunderland
Manchester United v Hull City
Southampton v Manchester United

Tottenham: 2pts ahead with the following to play
West Bromwich Albion v Tottenham Hotspur
Tottenham Hotspur v Fulham
Stoke City v Tottenham Hotspur
West Ham United v Tottenham Hotspur
Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa

Everton: 6 pts ahead
Sunderland v Everton
Everton v Crystal Palace
Everton v Manchester United
Southampton v Everton
Everton v Manchester City
Hull City v Everton

If United wins all 5 of the matches that's 15 pts
Should Tottenham lose 1 United will be in 6th position 1 pt ahead hopefully WBA, West Ham or Aston Villa can pull something out
Should Everton lose 2 United will be tied with Everton - Losing to United and City hopefully to Southampton too

The bigger problem, other than United playing teams battling relegation, is that United play three of those games at home- a place that they have been very uncomfortable the entire season.

 

[Unhappy1]

I agree, it would be bad for him, but just pointing out that there are options to bolster the available cash by selling what's not needed/wanted/working.

Sure, although im not a Moyes fan if you look at things objectively then its actually fine margins. Last minute goals scored against us from the likes of Fulham, Cardiff, Southampton. Add the unlucky losses to Everton, Newcastle and Stoke and all of a sudden we are in the top 4 ahead of Arsenal by a few points. I think Moyes can possible improve where we are picking up the points in those games but as i said before next season shouldnt be about just scraping top 4, it should be about winning the league. Im willing to see how Moyes finishes the season, if its a strong finish then i will support him into the next season. If by Nov/Dec things haven't changed and we aren't near the top then hes got to go imo.

 

[thestaggy]

Sure, although im not a Moyes fan if you look at things objectively then its actually fine margins. Last minute goals scored against us from the likes of Fulham, Cardiff, Southampton. Add the unlucky losses to Everton, Newcastle and Stoke and all of a sudden we are in the top 4 ahead of Arsenal by a few points. I think Moyes can possible improve where we are picking up the points in those games but as i said before next season shouldnt be about just scraping top 4, it should be about winning the league. Im willing to see how Moyes finishes the season, if its a strong finish then i will support him into the next season. If by Nov/Dec things haven't changed and we aren't near the top then hes got to go imo.

That's the thing, two wins at home among those dreadful performances and they are in the thick of the Champions League race. Even a Fulham win and suddenly Champions League is still a real possibility. Their home losses saw them put in dreadful performances, but they were not torn to shreds. And aside from City and Liverpool, the other sides ahead of them didn't exactly dismantle them either. They're close.

And I think that is fair. If he hasn't closed the gap on Liverpool/Chelsea/City by the end of 2014/15 then yes, time to reconsider.

 

[KOPITE]

Its ONE season. ONE. This isn't Liverpool in the middle of a two-decade long championship drought and no Champions League football in 4 years. The giant has stumbled, not gone into terminal decline.



Rumours range from a 100 - 200 million war chest, so yes, I believe United can afford one big transfer window. Maybe not all four players, but they will be able to sign at least two-three world class talents and I think it is all they need for now. Two/three quality talents in key positions.



By releasing/selling players to accommodate them, yes. Ashley Young earns a reported 110k a week, Nani earns 90k. Marco Reus earns about 65k a week. RVP is expendable. 200k a week. That will satisfy Kroos. Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand and Giggs combine for an estimated 380k per week in wages. Pretty much all of those players can and most probably will be moved on. United can free up nearly 800k per week in wages by shifting dead wood. They could actually sign quality players and trim the budget.

I'm probably over-simplifying it, but there are players who are not up to scratch, out of favour or past their sell-by date that are eating up a significant portion of the wage bill.



Yes, they fluffed last summer's window, but they should have learnt. Gill should have stayed for a season or two. The side has also looked better the past month, that indicates Moyes may be getting his feet under the table.



This no one knows, but clearly guys like Januzaj, Rooney and Mata have been up for it. Kagawa and Chicarito when they get a chance. Could do worse than RVP's whinging dik-bek and Evra turning it in after 60 minutes.

Lots of questions, yes, but far from the abyss people try to make it.

Even if its one season it can set you back in so many ways. By the way utd has been performing bookies will bet that utd won't make top 4 next season. by that i mean your top 5 or 6 will strenghen, so utd need to strenghen double on what most of the top teams do. the other teams are also settled teams and only need to add depth.

Uth oare already in debt of 350 million pounds. FFP rule is also coming into play and i cannot see utd spending more then 100 million in the summer.

the problem is not so much releasing a player, but getting a club that wants them and paying as little as possible for the player. also matching his current wages will be a stumbling block. so you've got to first off load before you can consider byuing your main targets. the other clubs would want to get their targets early, so that would leave utd with getting the scraps if you want to call it that.

this season will be a big test for Woodward and Moyes to see if they can get their targets in time and paying proper transfer fees.

you have already seen quite a few players like RvP, Ferdinand and co. complaining in the press about Moyes tactics and training methods.

All i would say it will be interesting what will unfold and how things will pan out for utd.

 

[RanzB]

****, I hope we lose or draw the next few games so we don't make Europa. I know there's this thought that we'd send our younger players out but I doubt it.

Uth oare already in debt of 350 million pounds. FFP rule is also coming into play and i cannot see utd spending more then 100 million in the summer.

That debt will not affect our FFP standings at all. It has zero bearing on it.

You're right about the wages though. RvP for instance has no obligation to move to a club which will offer him less in wages. What United can do to facilitate this is sell these players off at a (very) reduced rate, though I'm not sure how that will effect the books in terms of asset value.

 

[Unhappy1]

Debt doesnt plays a role with FFP, think its based on gross income, United has one of the largest. I would imagine its set up like this because investment in things like infrastructure isnt counted.

 

[Maverick Jester]

You're right about the wages though. RvP for instance has no obligation to move to a club which will offer him less in wages. What United can do to facilitate this is sell these players off at a (very) reduced rate, though I'm not sure how that will effect the books in terms of asset value.

Anything above 16mil should see you actually making a profit off of him, given how player amortisation usually operates. 15mil would see a tiny loss, but I bet that many teams would take him for that amount.