on road handling fees

[HapticSimian]

I dont think the customer should pay for this
If im selling something as new I make sure its 100% before I hand it over to you without charging you for it

You're buying the car... you represent the sales department's sole source of income, and said sales department gets invoiced by the workshop for work done. How exactly do you propose not paying for it? Of course you'll end up paying for it, whether it is specifically mentioned or not.

This all comes back 'round to what I've said more than once 'round here, and it's something that Fazda has echoed as well if I'm not mistaken: Swings and roundabouts, in other words a given dealer will have a bottom-line figure in mind on a given transaction. Whatever you think you win on the on-the-road-fees being reduced or waived, you lose on the discount you might potentially have been offered.

I remain an advocate of transparency and reasonableness, of course. If car buyers and salespeople were to simply treat each other with a modicum of respect very few of these conversations would ever happen.

 

[rodga]

You're buying the car... you represent the sales department's sole source of income, and said sales department gets invoiced by the workshop for work done. How exactly do you propose not paying for it? Of course you'll end up paying for it, whether it is specifically mentioned or not.

This all comes back 'round to what I've said more than once 'round here, and it's something that Fazda has echoed as well if I'm not mistaken: Swings and roundabouts, in other words a given dealer will have a bottom-line figure in mind on a given transaction. Whatever you think you win on the on-the-road-fees being reduced or waived, you lose on the discount you might potentially have been offered.

I remain an advocate of transparency and reasonableness, of course. If car buyers and salespeople were to simply treat each other with a modicum of respect very few of these conversations would ever happen.

Sorry I dont agree with you
They shouldnt advertise a car and then come afterwards adding all sorts of fees and inspections afterwards.
It should be included in the asking price of the car imo

Its like going to mcdonalds and ordering a bigmac for R20
and then just before paying the saleperson says they need to add an inspection fee of 50c
because thats what it costs the sales department to get the cooking department to make sure everything is 100%

 

[F1 Fan]

Sorry, but you will have to do that then. R2950 includes Lic&Reg, a full tank of fuel, numberplates and carpet mats.

If you begrudge paying the guy who has to stand in the queue for you, then by all means do your own licencing, and fill up your tank and buy a set of carpets for the new car.

CMH happens to be one of our competitors, and I KNOW that I can undercut them every time when it comes to this fee - they are robbing you blind. I am happy that the 2950 covers what it should plus helps pay the guy who does the crappy job. Anything more than that is crazy.

There are many ways to include that in the price, and one of them is to decrease your discount by that amount -very simple but swings and roundabouts in the end.

Guys you keep forgetting that this is a business and certain margins and profits have to be made if you want to remain viable.

If you don't like the extra charges like this, do a private deal.

I wouldn't personally pay it, I would do it myself. But for those willing to pay, I think it is a fair price.

 

[HapticSimian]

Sorry I dont agree with you
They shouldnt advertise a car and then come afterwards adding all sorts of fees and inspections afterwards.
It should be included in the asking price of the car imo

Its like going to mcdonalds and ordering a bigmac for R20
and then just before paying the saleperson says they need to add an inspection fee of 50c
because thats what it costs the sales department to get the cooking department to make sure everything is 100%

You're not disagreeing with me as much as you think you are, though. I definitely think one could make the argument that a sticker price should afford one a car ready to be driven away. It would unfortunately just take a day for all kinds of new accusations of collusion and price fixing to start flowing.

I'm however not convinced by your McDonalds analogy. It's rather like a restaurant charging a premium for any bottle on their wine list, or a corkage fee if you were to bring your own - you do pay a bit for the privilege of consuming the tipple in the surroundings provided. Similarly, many people want plush carpets, and a full tank of fuel, and a car spat on and polished to no end, and registration taken care of, and whatever else, and are willing to pay for the service. That does not, however, excuse dealers or restaurants for charging stupid prices.

 

[xrapidx]

I dont think the customer should pay for this
If im selling something as new I make sure its 100% before I hand it over to you without charging you for it

Well if they don't the CPA will bite them in the ass.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I can completely agree with licensing and such fees, but they must be at cost + a reasonable markup for time taken (so cost plus 15% or something)... but this PDI, etc etc... even on a second hand vehicle is complete bollocks in my opinion.

I am in the process of buying a second hand half tonne bakkie for my folks, and the salesman wouldn't budge on the asking price at all... then when it came time to do the OTP he included all the "fees", that added up to just over R6k... i scrapped them all barring the license and reg fee which was very reasonable at about R650 or so... he tried to argue and I told him if he doesn't like my OTP, then he can throw it away. He wasn't negotiable on the asking price, then I am not negotiable on my allowable fees. The dealership is clearly making enough profit on the vehicle because i just had to threaten to walk away from the deal and the fees were scrapped.

If you take all of CMH's "optional extra's" on a used vehicle, they very quickly would add up to over R10k.

 

[Fazda]

You're buying the car... you represent the sales department's sole source of income, and said sales department gets invoiced by the workshop for work done. How exactly do you propose not paying for it? Of course you'll end up paying for it, whether it is specifically mentioned or not.

This all comes back 'round to what I've said more than once 'round here, and it's something that Fazda has echoed as well if I'm not mistaken: Swings and roundabouts, in other words a given dealer will have a bottom-line figure in mind on a given transaction. Whatever you think you win on the on-the-road-fees being reduced or waived, you lose on the discount you might potentially have been offered.

I remain an advocate of transparency and reasonableness, of course. If car buyers and salespeople were to simply treat each other with a modicum of respect very few of these conversations would ever happen.

Thank you for your reasonable words of wisdom - they help bring some sanity into this thread!!


We do not charge customers for the PDI, as it comes off the profit made on the car, however, I would not be surprised if it was charged for by some dealerships.

I'm not going to look back, but did someone say that they could do without a PDI?? If so, they clearly have not seen how a car arrives off the ship or ex factory.

Using an Alfa Giulietta as an example -0 it comes with a FIVE page document of checks that have to be done to the car and the car is almost undrivable when it arrives, as the factory ships it in shipping or limp mode which prevents the engine from being revved above 1500 rpm - computer (ECU) is also "out of the box" and has to be completely retuned to handle running the car. Fluid levels are all checked as well, as radiator is not necessarily full, washer bottles and fuel tanks are empty - tyres vary quite wildly on pressure and then the entire car has to be mated to a diagnostic computer which goes through, checks and then re- sets every setting from nose to tail.
Whether the customer should pay towards this is debatable, however, it is absolutely essential that the PDI takes place, and time wise you are looking at approximately 4 hours for the Alfa - and yes, the car has to be booked in to the service department, and yes, in the real world, the sales department is billed by the service department, to pay for it - we set aside 1800 - 2000 per car.

I must just wonder what the big mouths would say if they were actually involved in selling just one new car, expecting to make a profit that would justify running a business....

 

[Fazda]

Oh pre delivery inspection... another bull****..how about you do a pre selling inspection and make sure your car is worth selling.

Oh - here is the wonderful quote that I missed just now.

I am amazed at statements like this - very definitely made by someone who hasn't a clue as to what he is talking about......

 

[ToxicBunny]

Oh - here is the wonderful quote that I missed just now.

I am amazed at statements like this - very definitely made by someone who hasn't a clue as to what he is talking about......

If he is talking about second hand vehicles, then its right on the money in my opinion though.

Surely before a car is even put on the floor it goes through checks and spends time in the workshop so that the guys are aware of the profit margin on the vehicle?

 

[bboy]

Oh - here is the wonderful quote that I missed just now.

I am amazed at statements like this - very definitely made by someone who hasn't a clue as to what he is talking about......

I stand by my statement, new or 2nd hand, its not my job/responsibility/problem/cost to make sure the car is actually working. You guys wanna sell cars,then you make sure they are good enough to sell.

 

[HapticSimian]

...

Whether the customer should pay towards this is debatable

...

I must just reiterate my point that the customer pays towards this regardless of whether it appears on an itemised breakdown - he or she cannot not do so. It's a necessary expense, just like part of what you pay for a packet of biscuits at Woolies covers distribution, part of what you pay for a car covers essential pre-delivery work. However, just as your till slip from Woolies doesn't show that contribution, I don't think 'PDI' should even be mentioned to your average car buyer. It just muddies the waters.

In the end, as you rightly mention, it is an inevitable cost on every transaction which further erodes any potential profit.

 

[Spyk3r]

35% ad valorm import tax and 14% vat....

Explain why i can get cars in the US or UK for half the price and twice the features. You stealerships are theives down here cause not a single person can explain that. the only non rational excuse is that "oh, the states sells more cars". but what about the UK where some of the cars are made, they come down here with half the features and still twice the cost.

yes, i am pissed off about this as it just doesn't make sense to me. is it taxes or what?

 

[xrapidx]

I must just reiterate my point that the customer pays towards this regardless of whether it appears on an itemised breakdown

Thats great, then include it in your asking price (As you said) - don't advertise one price, and then waste my time when I get there with various add on prices. It's not ethical - I actually wonder if its covered by the CPA, or ASA.

EDIT: I've just emailed, will see if they respond.

 

[rorz0r]

Thats great, then include it in your asking price (As you said) - don't advertise one price, and then waste my time when I get there with various add on prices. It's not ethical - I actually wonder if its covered by the CPA, or ASA.

EDIT: I've just emailed, will see if they respond.

Absolutely. Unless those "add ons" are optional then include them in the advertised price. I mean I may as well advertise a BMW 320i for 100k then when the customer comes in tell him that he must pay an extra R75k for shipping, R100k import tax, R5k CO2 tax, R5k on the road, R5k for a stocking fee towards financing it while on the showroom floor, R10k commission to the salesman, R40k for the motorplan, R2k for the PDI, R2k for licensing the vehicle, R1k for the mats, R2k for the paint, R20k for the tyres, R500 for fuel, R50 for the guy who took it to the garage to get the fuel, R400 for wheel balancing and alignment, R50 for the maid to wipe it with a rag and sunlight liquid, R500 to rent the big bow for half an hour and R50 per photo of you next to your new shiny car.*


*Initiation fee of R1140 and service fee of R57/month not included

 

[ToxicBunny]

As an addendum to my on-road-handling fees thing with CMH.

They came back with the finances offers (so this is not their fault in the slightest), and not a single one was even in the realm of being potentially acceptable.
They all wanted more than a 10% deposit, and a rate of 12% or higher.

Since I do not NEED to sell my vehicle, the banks have just lost out on R22k of profit, because they wanted to try and make R32k profit instead.

 

[Fazda]

As an addendum to my on-road-handling fees thing with CMH.

They came back with the finances offers (so this is not their fault in the slightest), and not a single one was even in the realm of being potentially acceptable.
They all wanted more than a 10% deposit, and a rate of 12% or higher.

Since I do not NEED to sell my vehicle, the banks have just lost out on R22k of profit, because they wanted to try and make R32k profit instead.

You raise a very good point - most people are so busy pointing fingers at dealerships that they completely forget that the bank is the ultimate rip off merchant.

In addition, a bank will charge you a higher interest rate if you finance a smaller amount, so in some cases it might be better to hang on to that extra 50k you were going to add to the deal and finance a little more if you want a lower interest rate.

Our dealership has recently started advertising a repayment based on prime, and in that way we are forcing the banks to come to the party and charge lower rates.

ooops, sorry I shouldn't have mentioned that, as all we are interested in is screwing the customer...

 

[xrapidx]

Yeh, because you're forced to finance the vehicle.

 

[Fazda]

Yeh, because you're forced to finance the vehicle.

If you cannot pay cash you are welcome tp contact the bank directly and finance that way - the dealer does not have to be involved at all..

 

[Rocket-Boy]

Sorry, but you will have to do that then. R2950 includes Lic&Reg, a full tank of fuel, numberplates and carpet mats.

If you begrudge paying the guy who has to stand in the queue for you, then by all means do your own licencing, and fill up your tank and buy a set of carpets for the new car.

CMH happens to be one of our competitors, and I KNOW that I can undercut them every time when it comes to this fee - they are robbing you blind. I am happy that the 2950 covers what it should plus helps pay the guy who does the crappy job. Anything more than that is crazy.

There are many ways to include that in the price, and one of them is to decrease your discount by that amount -very simple but swings and roundabouts in the end.

Guys you keep forgetting that this is a business and certain margins and profits have to be made if you want to remain viable.

If you don't like the extra charges like this, do a private deal.

You can keep your carpets and tank of fuel thanks. All I want when I buy a car is license and registration done.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

Really?

Do the maths.

Licence and Reg - Forester - R 825 + Tank of fuel from empty ( the cars come empty) +- R750 + Set of number plates R150, + set of embossed genuine carpet mats R950. Total R 2675 - please forgive me for "swiping" R 275 to pay the licence guy.

That is a bit different, yes its understandable they come empty so it would need some fuel, doesnt need to be full though. Do all of the clients want to pay R950 for a set of embossed mats?