Ongoing Palestinian terror attacks against Israel.

Spizz said:
Good grief, it's like a playground argument. I criticise the Palestinian leaders and I'm immediately a Zionist? Lol, it's ridiculous.

And this statement, where do you get it from and why attribute it to me? If anything I'd say the Palestinians hatred of the Jews is completely and utterly rational. What I am lamenting is that it is this hatred that is capitalised on by the people who should be protecting them, not sending children to their death on a promise of martyrdom.
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You're going to have an aneurysm going round and round with the group of 4 ....... they will never directly answer anything you ask and continuously attribute your posts as being what they're not.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Why more obfuscation? There aren't a "million and one reasons". It's the illegal occupation and the settlements. Of course you can criticise the vile behaviour like stabbings, incitement, and the like, but stop pretending that it happens in a vacuum and as if Israel's actions have no influence on things that happen.

And look at your post, again no word on Israel at all. Just vague 'meh, too many reasons to get into', before you go into Palestinian bashing mode again.
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Palestinian bashing? WTF man, it's the Palestinians being sent to their certain deaths that is the point of everything I've written on this thread so far.

You might think it's a simple open and shut case, but I don't. Are illegal settlements and occupied territories the reason children are stabbing all comers at random on the streets? Possibly, but I happen to think that's a bit simplistic. I'd say the reasons are far deeper and go back to the roots of the conflict and the fear and distrust firmly ensconced in both peoples.

You don't, good for you. But don't think I have to take a side because you have.

In fact, I know you haven't taken any sides. But the way you are presenting your argument I'd be fully justified in taking a leaf from your book and calling you anti semiotic and a muslim apologist. But that would be ridiculous, just like your labels for me, and I reject them all.


OrbitalDawn said:
Netanyahu's strategy is pretty clear. He'll dilute any potential Palestinian state so much that it's entirely unfeasible for them to accept it and then claim they're not interested in peace or having a state. A fifth of the West Bank and East Jerusalem's population are now Israelis, and he'll keep pushing this agenda.

Netanyahu Demands U.S. Recognition of Building in Settlement Blocs in Exchange for Israeli Steps in West Bank

lived666 is also an atheist, but he doesn't hide his pro-Israel bias, so not really dependent on religious (or lack thereof).
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Similarly. if I had a pro-Israel bias, I'd tell you quickly enough.

But if you want to open a thread about Israeli strategy or the history of this human tragedy, go right ahead and I might join in if I can retain my faith in humanity long enough.
 
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Mephisto_Helix said:
You're going to have an aneurysm going round and round with the group of 4 ....... they will never directly answer anything you ask and continuously attribute your posts as being what they're not.
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So I see. Some I expect it from, but I can't help being disappointed in others.
 
Spizz said:
Good grief, it's like a playground argument. I criticise the Palestinian leaders and I'm immediately a Zionist? Lol, it's ridiculous.
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I didn't accuse you of being a zionist. You, however, did accuse me of being an apologist. I said you were wrong by explaining what my motives actually are. If you take that to be some kind of observation about you, I really can't help that.

And this statement, where do you get it from and why attribute it to me? If anything I'd say the Palestinians hatred of the Jews is completely and utterly rational. What I am lamenting is that it is this hatred that is capitalised on by the people who should be protecting them, not sending children to their death on a promise of martyrdom.
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Yeah, but your assertion is made without any evidence to back it up.

Spizz said:
Palestinian bashing? WTF man, it's the Palestinians being sent to their certain deaths that is the point of everything I've written on this thread so far.
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Is it? You seem so certain... :erm:

Just how are the Palestinians being sent to their certain deaths when the prevailing wisdom is that this current campaign is being waged through social media?

You might think it's a simple open and shut case, but I don't. Are illegal settlements and occupied territories the reason children are stabbing all commoners at random on the streets? Possibly, but I happen to think that's a bit simplistic. I'd say the reasons are far deeper and go back to the roots of the conflict and the fear and distrust firmly ensconced in both peoples.
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And yet somehow you're so so uncertain about this... :erm:

If their fear and hatred is "rational" then it means there's a logical reason for it. Pointing to "hatred" from the past is not a rational reason to go out and kill anyone in my book. Stopping an existing occupation on the other hand, however, is.
 
Xarog said:
I didn't accuse you of being a zionist. You, however, did accuse me of being an apologist. I said you were wrong by explaining what my motives actually are. If you take that to be some kind of observation about you, I really can't help that.
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..
It's really funny how you portray yourself as "neutral" in this when your bias is so so obvious.
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You just don't take the hint, despite your bias being pointed out to you by several different posters now...
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Not a Zionist? Then what exactly is my 'bias'? Or do I perhaps just hate muslims?

Xarog said:
Yeah, but your assertion is made without any evidence to back it up.
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Lol, can I help it if you don't watch the news? :wtf:

I can't believe you have missed the large number of Palestinian children who have been shot dead by Israeli forces after stabbing random strangers?

Xarog said:
Is it? You seem so certain... :erm:

Just how are the Palestinians being sent to their certain deaths when the prevailing wisdom is that this current campaign is being waged through social media?
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Do you actually internet? :wtf:

Did these people die while Tweeting?

..
Since the beginning of October, 91 Palestinians have been killed in shootings and clashes with Israeli forces in the occupied Palestinian territories and Israel, while 15 Israelis have been killed in knife and gun attacks.
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Xarog said:
And yet somehow you're so so uncertain about this... :erm:
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I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny, sarcastic or are even reading what I wrote.

Xarog said:
If their fear and hatred is "rational" then it means there's a logical reason for it. Pointing to "hatred" from the past is not a rational reason to go out and kill anyone in my book. Stopping an existing occupation on the other hand, however, is.
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And that occupation just sprung up over night, huh?

Anyway, now I know I have to stop interacting with you. Your disingenuous replies and argumentative personality are not worth wasting my time on.
 
Spizz said:
Palestinian bashing? WTF man, it's the Palestinians being sent to their certain deaths that is the point of everything I've written on this thread so far.

You might think it's a simple open and shut case, but I don't. Are illegal settlements and occupied territories the reason children are stabbing all comers at random on the streets? Possibly, but I happen to think that's a bit simplistic. I'd say the reasons are far deeper and go back to the roots of the conflict and the fear and distrust firmly ensconced in both peoples.

You don't, good for you. But don't think I have to take a side because you have.

In fact, I know you haven't taken any sides. But the way you are presenting your argument I'd be fully justified in taking a leaf from your book and calling you anti semiotic and a muslim apologist. But that would be ridiculous, just like your labels for me, and I reject them all.
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Where have you criticised Israel, though? You mentioned earlier that you will do it, but I've yet to see it... And just a couple of posts ago I posted an article about Israel expanding settlements yet again. No one comments on it, it's just seen as 'more of the same', with no consideration for how it fits into the bigger picture, and what it actually represents.

And my view is that these settlements are not only arrogant and spiteful, in light of what we'd like to see happen (2 independent, safe, prosperous states), but it's actually highly counter productive to that end. It decreases Israel's security, and shows they're not serious about actually working towards peace or a 2 state solution.

The reason I said you were disingenuous on this is because the moment we raised the very same point you're making above (that it isn't a simplistic issue) you claimed you don't want to go into all the reasons etc. It effectively cuts off the conversation at pointing out Palestinian wrongdoing (which, I absolutely agree needs to condemned) but then not mentioning any Israeli actions that form a critical part of the larger picture.
 
Spizz said:
Not a Zionist? Then what exactly is my 'bias'? Or do I perhaps just hate muslims?
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I don't know. You tell me, exactly what is the origin of your bias?

Zionism implies a political ideology which supports Israel as a Jewish state. Most Islamophobes are not Zionists, for example.

Lol, can I help it if you don't watch the news? :wtf:
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Which news exactly? I follow the news extensively; and surprise surprise, not all of it is even-handed. So again, where are the sources for your assertions?

I can't believe you have missed the large number of Palestinian children who have been shot dead by Israeli forces after stabbing random strangers?
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I haven't missed it at all. I'm questioning your assertion that someone else sent them to do it. Where's your evidence?

Do you actually internet? :wtf:

Did these people die while Tweeting?
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Do you internet?

The point that is not sinking into your skull is that these attacks are not being organised by any specific group, they are being organised generally through a social media campaign calling for a popular resistance. There is no terrorist network for the IDF/Mossad to ferret out this time, they're literally helpless to respond. These attackers are all lone individuals acting of their own accord.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny, sarcastic or are even reading what I wrote.
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I'm trying to point your own bias out to you. You make grand unsupportable assumptions with regards to the facts on the ground, you state them, without corroboration, as if they're undeniable fact, but whenever anything comes along to challenge those "certainties", you respond with "well I'm not all that sure" and "There's many possible reasons we can't just pick one" etc. etc. It's ridiculous. You're making a fool of yourself.

And that occupation just sprung up over night, huh?
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No, it has been going on for several decades now. The resistance to the occupation is a long one with many chapters. This is one of them.

Anyway, now I know I have to stop interacting with you. Your disingenuous replies and argumentative personality are not worth wasting my time on.
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LOL. Et tu, Brute.
 
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OrbitalDawn said:
Where have you criticised Israel, though? You mentioned earlier that you will do it, but I've yet to see it... And just a couple of posts ago I posted an article about Israel expanding settlements yet again. No one comments on it, it's just seen as 'more of the same', with no consideration for how it fits into the bigger picture, and what it actually represents.

And my view is that these settlements are not only arrogant and spiteful, in light of what we'd like to see happen (2 independent, safe, prosperous states), but it's actually highly counter productive to that end. It decreases Israel's security, and shows they're not serious about actually working towards peace or a 2 state solution.
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This is ridiculous. Israeli's are being attacked and stabbed by brain washed Palestinian children, and I happen to think that this is a result of incitement to hatred by elders and leaders.

But I can't say that without condemning Israel????

OrbitalDawn said:
The reason I said you were disingenuous on this is because the moment we raised the very same point you're making above (that it isn't a simplistic issue) you claimed you don't want to go into all the reasons etc. It effectively cuts off the conversation at pointing out Palestinian wrongdoing (which, I absolutely agree needs to condemned) but then not mentioning any Israeli actions that form a critical part of the larger picture.
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Hey, that's what I'm doing.
 
Spizz said:
This is ridiculous. Israeli's are being attacked and stabbed by brain washed Palestinian children, and I happen to think that this is a result of incitement to hatred by elders and leaders.

But I can't say that without condemning Israel????



Hey, that's what I'm doing.
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And you wonder why you might be considered biased... lol.

The moment the discussion turns to something more substantial than condemning Palestinians all of a sudden it's a 'very complicated issue', and there's a 'million and one reasons' that you don't want to go into.

Don't claim to be unbiased if you can't be arsed to demonstrate it.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
And you wonder why you might be considered biased... lol.

The moment the discussion turns to something more substantial than condemning Palestinians all of a sudden it's a 'very complicated issue', and there's a 'million and one reasons' that you don't want to go into.

Don't claim to be unbiased if you can't be arsed to demonstrate it.
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But remember, it's not the poor children's fault. It's the fault of the evil (unidentified) brainwashers who make them do it. :whistle:
 
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Ongoing Palestinian terror attacks against Israel

Shots fired towards Israeli car near Tomb of the Patriarchs, no injuries, windows shattered.
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Ongoing daily Palestinian Terror Attacks against Israel

Palestinian terrorist rams his vehicle into group of people near Kfar Adumim injures 2
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Ongoing daily Palestinian Terror Attacks against Israel

Rocket fired from the Gaza Strip toward Israel failed and exploded in Gaza moments ago, unknown of injuries yet.
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TheJman said:
Ongoing daily Palestinian Terror Attacks against Israel
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Attempted stabbing attack at Gush Etzion junction
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...spected-stabbing-attack-in-Gush-Etzion-435909

A Palestinian terrorist attempted to stab a man at Gush Etzion junction on Tuesday morning. Security forces at the scene shot and killed the terrorist. A 40-year-old bystander was lightly injured by shrapnel at the scene.

Paramedics administered initial care at the scene and evacuated the man to Hadassah University Medical Center in Jerusalem's Ein Kerem.

Gush Etzion junction has been the site of multiple stabbing and shooting attacks in the last few weeks
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Xarog said:
But remember, it's not the poor children's fault. It's the fault of the evil (unidentified) brainwashers who make them do it. :whistle:
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I left this thread well alone after the bullying tactics exhibited about my 'biased' views painted me into a corner with clever comments such as this one quoted by Xarog, but feel compelled to return after reading this article written by a Palestinian journalist about the incitement and exploitation of Palestinian children which perfectly illustrates the points I was making.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6995/palestinian-child-sacrifice

Our perverted leaders do not only encourage young Palestinians to commit murder. When these children are killed in the act of committing murder, both the PA and Hamas claim that that Israelis "executed" them. They then call our kids martyrs (shuhadaa), glorify them and turn them into role models for other loser kids. Then they pay their families enormous bonuses.
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And in another ironic twist, the same article closes with another point I was trying to make about the way forward...

We also might do well to remember the results of the first two intifadas. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of Palestinians died, but the Israelis did not move a meter. We carry out terrorist campaign after terrorist campaign, and the violence gets us nowhere and brings us nothing -- not from Israel and not from the international community.

If we really want to have our Palestinian State, we can have it tomorrow. All we have to do is change our image as terrorists.
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Is this Palestinian also 'biased' OD?
 
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