Ongoing Palestinian terror attacks against Israel.

Spizz said:
Because two wrongs make a right, huh?
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The key word in my reply is "And" The Incitement should stop but so too should the illegal settlements - both sides are guilty of some pretty horrible things..
 
OrbitalDawn said:
It went this time last way we discussed it, too. Only this vague admission that Israel perhaps also have't been helpful, but then going back to blaming the Palestinians not only for their own actions, but for the actions of Israel, as well.

Reality is quite a bit more nuanced than you're portraying it, I think. On both sides. They support Hamas (those who do, many don't) because they're one of the only groups offering resistance to Israel's occupation. This doesn't mean they support everything they do or the way they do it. And Hamas has actually previously supported a two-state solution, too.

There's also a very real perception among many Palestinians that Israel will just keep extending its settlements and eventually expel them. Can't say I blame them since Israel hasn't stopped expanding their settlements in the West Bank, and refuse to.

This erodes any confidence that Palestinians have about whether a two-state solution can even happen. Israel won't likely give up the settlements, which takes away land that should actually be part of the Palestinian state.

The other proposed solution is a one-state solution. One country for everyone in the region. Naturally neither side is particularly confident that this will work, especially given the last half a century's events.
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If there are threads anywhere about the Israeli's reneging on deals or building illegal settlements, then I'll comment and apportion blame where it is due. However, I'm getting a bit tired about having to pour out my life story every time I condemn a Palestinian action on a thread about Palestinians knifing random passers by. It's disgusting, it's shocking and it needs to stop. Regardless of who is doing the knifing and who is on the receiving end.

So I call out the bigots who somehow justify it with 'ah's' and 'buts', and I will continue to do so.

If you throw rocks at a man with a gun, it is quite possible that he will shoot you. That doesn't mean I agree with the man shooting the rock thrower, it mean the rock thrower will get shot. My solution would be, do not throw rocks at a man with a gun. You will get shot.

If someone is inciting the rock thrower into throwing the rock, I'll have a go at him too.
 
Spizz said:
That's it, get it all out. You are after all only advocating the only solution you believe in. i.e., the destruction of Israel and the death of millions. Not so?

So we know why the Palestinians act like they do. They want to destroy Israel.

Now, why do you think the Israeli's are acting like they do when the intentions are so clear? WTF do you expect Einstein?
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Lol.

He was talking about Benjamin Netanyahu's refusal to accept any kind of two state solution. Benny Boy's going hell for leather for the the Eretz Israel solution and it's how he plays his political cards. So while Netanyahu and his fellow facists are in power, there will be no two state solution because Benjamin Netanyahu will do whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't happen.

It's really funny how you portray yourself as "neutral" in this when your bias is so so obvious.
 
Xarog said:
Lol.

He was talking about Benjamin Netanyahu's refusal to accept any kind of two state solution. Benny Boy's going hell for leather for the the Eretz Israel solution and it's how he plays his political cards. So while Netanyahu and his fellow facists are in power, there will be no two state solution because Benjamin Netanyahu will do whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't happen.

It's really funny how you portray yourself as "neutral" in this when your bias is so so obvious.
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I'd love you to give me one reason why on earth you think I have a bias towards Israel? One reason. Please share what you know about me, I'd love to know.

Trust me. If I had any bias towards any side, I'd have the balls to admit it. I'm not the one flip flopping around seeking justification and apologising for these stabbings.
 
Spizz said:
If there are threads anywhere about the Israeli's reneging on deals or building illegal settlements, then I'll comment and apportion blame where it is due. However, I'm getting a bit tired about having to pour out my life story every time I condemn a Palestinian action on a thread about Palestinians knifing random passers by. It's disgusting, it's shocking and it needs to stop. Regardless of who is doing the knifing and who is on the receiving end.

So I call out the bigots who somehow justify it with 'ah's' and 'buts', and I will continue to do so.

If you throw rocks at a man with a gun, it is quite possible that he will shoot you. That doesn't mean I agree with the man shooting the rock thrower, it mean the rock thrower will get shot. My solution would be, do not throw rocks at a man with a gun. You will get shot.

If someone is inciting the rock thrower into throwing the rock, I'll have a go at him too.
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The other part of that solution would also be that the man with the gun shouldn't be there in the first place, acting on behalf of an illegal occupation.

There's a very deliberate obfuscation happening here. You say you want to be able to condemn the violence from Palestinian quarters and call out people who interject with 'ahs' and 'buts', and yet when Israel's misdeeds are pointed out you interject with 'ahs' and 'buts' of your own justifying Israel's actions.

Your doing what marine also does. Nominally state that you oppose the settlements, but you don't actually factor the settlements and illegal occupation into any of the events that occur, as if it's some unrelated, irrelevant side issue.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
The other part of that solution would also be that the man with the gun shouldn't be there in the first place, acting on behalf of an illegal occupation.

There's a very deliberate obfuscation happening here. You say you want to be able to condemn the violence from Palestinian quarters and call out people who interject with 'ahs' and 'buts', and yet when Israel's misdeeds are pointed out you interject with 'ahs' and 'buts' of your own justifying Israel's actions.

Your doing what marine also does. Nominally state that you oppose the settlements, but you don't actually factor the settlements and illegal occupation into any of the events that occur, as if it's some unrelated, irrelevant side issue.
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The settlements you harping on about having nothing to do with the fact that there is no peace. There wasn't peace before 1967 and the bulk of the settlements are close to the green line and were originally Jewish areas before being destroyed by Jordan. There are no settlements in areas A and B under PA control.
 
Spizz said:
I'd love you to give me one reason why on earth you think I have a bias towards Israel? One reason. Please share what you know about me, I'd love to know.

Trust me. If I had any bias towards any side, I'd have the balls to admit it. I'm not the one flip flopping around seeking justification and apologising for these stabbings.
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You mean aside from what OD pointed out?

It's like saying back in the 80s that Apartheid is wrong and both sides in the conflict share blame, but the moment that the ANC bombs someone the reasons for their struggle etc. become totally irrelevant and they're to blame as if they just came and bombed random people for no reason whatsoever, they just want to destroy South Africa etc.

The point is it's so far divorced from reality that there's no way to make such a statement without coming across like an apologist yourself.

And whenever people say anything that penetrates your little bubble of delusion, you accuse them of being hate mongers like you did with 3Gee over his comments about Netanyahu.

So I don't really have to share "what I know about you", I just have to point out what your actions (on the forum) have been and let them speak for themselves. And so far the story is pretty obvious.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
The other part of that solution would also be that the man with the gun shouldn't be there in the first place, acting on behalf of an illegal occupation.

There's a very deliberate obfuscation happening here. You say you want to be able to condemn the violence from Palestinian quarters and call out people who interject with 'ahs' and 'buts', and yet when Israel's misdeeds are pointed out you interject with 'ahs' and 'buts' of your own justifying Israel's actions.

Your doing what marine also does. Nominally state that you oppose the settlements, but you don't actually factor the settlements and illegal occupation into any of the events that occur, as if it's some unrelated, irrelevant side issue.
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Come on, we're scratching the surface here, there are a million and one reasons for the situation. Do I have to go through them all one by one before I can comment on the current practice of incitement of the Palestinian youth by their leaders? It's absolutely shocking and it's (if it is possible) making things worse. Palestinian youth are seen as expendable by the people elected to serve them and families are taught martyrdom. It has to stop, surely? Can't I say that without being accused of bias?

It's really not a statement on anything other than the senseless killing of brain washed Palestinian youths and random strangers from all walks of life.

Good grief, I'm an atheist who despairs over organised religion and it's influences on it's followers. Why the heck would I have any preference for one side over the other?
 
Xarog said:
You mean aside from what OD pointed out?

It's like saying back in the 80s that Apartheid is wrong and both sides in the conflict share blame, but the moment that the ANC bombs someone the reasons for their struggle etc. become totally irrelevant and they're to blame as if they just came and bombed random people for no reason whatsoever, they just want to destroy South Africa etc.

The point is it's so far divorced from reality that there's no way to make such a statement without coming across like an apologist yourself.

And whenever people say anything that penetrates your little bubble of delusion, you accuse them of being hate mongers like you did with 3Gee over his comments about Netanyahu.

So I don't really have to share "what I know about you", I just have to point out what your actions (on the forum) have been and let them speak for themselves. And so far the story is pretty obvious.
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Lol. So you've got nothing?

Thought so.
 
Spizz said:
I'd love you to give me one reason why on earth you think I have a bias towards Israel? One reason. Please share what you know about me, I'd love to know.

Trust me. If I had any bias towards any side, I'd have the balls to admit it. I'm not the one flip flopping around seeking justification and apologising for these stabbings.
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Blaming the insurgency on the majority without providing any proof is a bit dubious....

Spizz said:
And all Palestinians? Maybe I should have said 'these' instead of 'the'. Really though, the incitement from within and the actions of Israel combined, I'd imagine it applies to the majority.
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Spizz said:
Lol. Doesn't stop you from rushing to apologize for murder though.
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:erm:

I never said the stabbings are right. What I am disputing is the claim that they're doing it because they're all filled with some irrational hatred for Israel/the Jews/whatever, and your repeated assertions to that effect. You just don't take the hint, despite your bias being pointed out to you by several different posters now...
 
lived666 said:
The settlements you harping on about having nothing to do with the fact that there is no peace. There wasn't peace before 1967 and the bulk of the settlements are close to the green line and were originally Jewish areas before being destroyed by Jordan. There are no settlements in areas A and B under PA control.
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Yes, they do. Considering it's been 48 years of occupation, and they just keep expanding. Just a week ago:

Israel approves 454 new settlement homes in East Jerusalem

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has approved the marketing of land for the construction of 454 homes in two settlements in occupied East Jerusalem, a government official said on Tuesday.

Some 500,000 Israelis have settled in the West Bank and East Jerusalem among 2.4 million Palestinians.

Despite international backlash, Israel's settlement projects continue. Last month, the state retroactively legalized about 800 homes in four settlements throughout the West Bank, the interior ministry said.

In a statement, the Palestinian Authority condemned the Israeli plan and settlement-building as a whole as a "flagrant violation of international law" aimed at preventing the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Continued settlement growth could further anger Palestinians who feel squeezed by growing loss of land to Jewish homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. In the latest unrest, settlers have been perpetrators of violence against Palestinians as well as targets.
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Spizz said:
Come on, we're scratching the surface here, there are a million and one reasons for the situation. Do I have to go through them all one by one before I can comment on the current practice of incitement of the Palestinian youth by their leaders? It's absolutely shocking and it's (if it is possible) making things worse. Palestinian youth are seen as expendable by the people elected to serve them and families are taught martyrdom. It has to stop, surely? Can't I say that without being accused of bias?

It's really not a statement on anything other than the senseless killing of brain washed Palestinian youths and random strangers from all walks of life.

Good grief, I'm an atheist who despairs over organised religion and it's influences on it's followers. Why the heck would I have any preference for one side over the other?
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Why more obfuscation? There aren't a "million and one reasons". It's the illegal occupation and the settlements. Of course you can criticise the vile behaviour like stabbings, incitement, and the like, but stop pretending that it happens in a vacuum and as if Israel's actions have no influence on things that happen.

And look at your post, again no word on Israel at all. Just vague 'meh, too many reasons to get into', before you go into Palestinian bashing mode again.

Netanyahu's strategy is pretty clear. He'll dilute any potential Palestinian state so much that it's entirely unfeasible for them to accept it and then claim they're not interested in peace or having a state. A fifth of the West Bank and East Jerusalem's population are now Israelis, and he'll keep pushing this agenda.

Netanyahu Demands U.S. Recognition of Building in Settlement Blocs in Exchange for Israeli Steps in West Bank

lived666 is also an atheist, but he doesn't hide his pro-Israel bias, so not really dependent on religious (or lack thereof).
 
TheJman said:
Terror continues
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When it involves an Israeli, its terror, when a Palestinian is murdered, burnt, bombed, executed, assassinated, imprisoned, evicted from his land, denied basic human rights, its justice?

Case closed.
 
Xarog said:
:erm:

I never said the stabbings are right. What I am disputing is the claim that they're doing it because they're all filled with some irrational hatred for Israel/the Jews/whatever, and your repeated assertions to that effect. You just don't take the hint, despite your bias being pointed out to you by several different posters now...
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Good grief, it's like a playground argument. I criticise the Palestinian leaders and I'm immediately a Zionist? Lol, it's ridiculous.

And this statement, where do you get it from and why attribute it to me? If anything I'd say the Palestinians hatred of the Jews is completely and utterly rational. What I am lamenting is that it is this hatred that is capitalised on by the people who should be protecting them, not sending children to their death on a promise of martyrdom.
 
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