Parenting failure

[RiaX]

snip

but how can you punish a kid to an extent that it will affect his application to university ? and hence the profession he enters ? how does this help anyone ? ultimately the goal is the educate the kid.

Obviously you cant throw the rules out the window but perhaps put him on probation ? make him do community service ? or make him clean the hostel for a month or two ? But dont ruin his future

 

[Shake&Bake]

but how can you punish a kid to an extent that it will affect his application to university ? and hence the profession he enters ? how does this help anyone ? ultimately the goal is the educate the kid.

Obviously you cant throw the rules out the window but perhaps put him on probation ? make him do community service ? or make him clean the hostel for a month or two ? But dont ruin his future

Sure (and the following is said without knowing how many times or what he's done before):

But how many times can you allow the rules to be broken?
Also what has he done before?
How many times have they spoken with him/Carol about his behaviour?
If there's no helping someone, whom is a habitual line stepper, then what can you do?
If he doesn't want help and doesn't respect authority and assitance for however long it was - what is to say it will help now?

As Leon Schuster said: 'n Grap is 'n grap. Maar jy maak nie 'n sambreel oop in 'n man se gat nie.

In my day - it was get moered by the "Palie" and then at home.
As jy nie wil hoor nie, dan moet jy voel.

I'm not overly pleased about how I'm taking to this scenario - but I can understand where the school is coming from - if the kid's a repeat offender.
He should be adult enough to understand what's right and what's wrong.
He's done wrong plenty of times it seems.

I still hope for the best for him - I was and pretty much behaved like him to a degree when I was younger (maybe still do) - but enough is sometimes just enough.

I don't know?
Its a tricky and sad situation.

If he gets to stay - Carol and her husband really have to lay down firm rules and not let him continue to get away with kuk stuff anymore.

Sorry Carol - don't mean to tell you how to raise your kid - just my thoughts.

 

[MickeyD]

but how can you punish a kid to an extent that it will affect his application to university ? and hence the profession he enters ? how does this help anyone ? ultimately the goal is the educate the kid.

Obviously you cant throw the rules out the window but perhaps put him on probation ? make him do community service ? or make him clean the hostel for a month or two ? But dont ruin his future

^This.

@Carol: was only he kicked out of hostel? If so, then challenge the school and request that he be reinstated. Sit the kid down and explain to him how serious the situation is - he is about mess up his whole life. Note the "he" part, this is not your fault nor a result of your parenting. It's time the kid wakes up and smells the roses.

 

[Venomous]

Carol,

I've been thinking....

Look up middle child syndrome, you did say there are siblings before and after him.

 

[STS]

[-]You are not a failed parent. He is a failed child.[/-] He will see it eventually. I just wish he had seen you crying in the toilet, but sadly that never seems to happen.

By virtue of the fact that you wrote this letter, you are doing your best as a mom. I am younger than you, so I can't offer any advice, but I wish you the best of luck sorting it all out. We can be real arzeholes sometimes.

he is a developing child, he is looking for his own way through life. a child is their own person and a parent's job is to guide them through life, not own them

 

[smallearth]

Children at that age are incredibly manipulative. You cannot allow borrowing the car again. It's insane and it feeds the bad behaviour if you do nothing. In a sense if you do nothing he'll only think you don't care enough to punish him.

There are some 'tough love' groups out there. Hook up with one of them. He'll be better for it, and whats more he'll respect you for it (in time).

 

[noxibox]

Consider checking out Fine ... Cheers by Derek Wood; Derek was a brilliant teacher and had a good understanding of adolescents.

The lack of interest in studying could be symptomatic of the sense of abandonment and possibly depression, but it could also just be boredom. School is usually quit tedious, with bland teaching being the norm.

That's an incredibly horrible response. Alot of people send their kids to boarding school for different reasons. He gets ample attention, he doesn't feel abandoned, he is a weekly boarder and spends his weekends with my mom in an awesome town that he loves. He doesn't enjoy comming back to the city during school holidays. We make every effort to regularly travel up to see him and spend tome with him.

What you describe is exactly what would make a child feel abandoned by their parents. The behaviour definitely sounds like attention seeking.

And really, he hasn't had a hiding in many years, maybe that was our big mistake.

The mistake was taking that route in the first place, but those things can't be undone.

Sadly, when your child stands 2 heads taller than you, you have to change strategy.

It's pretty difficult to change strategy when a child has never learned internal regulation. It's something they can't learn from punishment. You've also taken away the external regulation.

In my day that got you 6 lashes from the headmaster & probably a few more when you got home. I suppose lashes are no longer an option so they use what's available to them.

Then we went out drinking again.

There are some 'tough love' groups out there. Hook up with one of them. He'll be better for it, and whats more he'll respect you for it (in time).

Don't even bother wasting your time on groups like that.

In a sense if you do nothing he'll only think you don't care enough to punish him.

The child is usually not looking for punishment, but simply desperate to get some attention. They have simply discovered that making their parents angry is a way to get at least some sort of attention even if it is unpleasant.

 

[Carol35]

Thanks so much for everyones opinions, I really do value all the input.

and why were you crying that your boy went drinking ? did you not do crazy things when you were young ? yes different day and age and all that blah blah stories but at the end of the day a child is curious and will be curious for a long time.

I could say in my school and varsity days I could be labelled a drug addict, an alcoholic and a mad man. Today im a professional and im a damn good one

Lol, I cried because I couldn't stop myself. I cried because I was hurt, disappointed, frustrated and angry that we are going through this again. But mostly because Im scared for him, I don't know where to from here. if that makes any sense. Haha, yep, maybe there is hope for him then after your description of your younger days. Lol, if by some miracle he gets a matric and mentions an interest in going to varsity, I think I will need a years supply of valium on hand at all times.

 

[Carol35]

The problem is you keep defending his actions Carol. If he takes the car its ok he had a friend in need. If he trows a ball its ok he can always use his shoe. He can drink at school, its ok it was a friends birthday.
What i am trying to get at is that your not teaching him cause & affect, his actions has to have consequences. If i took the car i would have been donered same goes for the drinking.
Sometimes we need to teach our children that its not right to do certain things.
Perhaps this is a good time now for your son to learn that. If i may ask is he going to be in trouble for the drinking or are you going to let it slide like the car? Maybe now is the time to be firm before its to late?
Deep down you know he messed up, thats why you didnt tell your husband & tell us from the start what he did.

Sorry, I didn't mention that he has been punished for the car, we have never allowed him to drive, in fact, I didn't even know he knew how to drive properly. Its his birthday next week and his punishment was cancellation of this day, it will pass as an ordinary day/no gifts etc and will be a birthday he truly remembers. We thought this was an adequate punishment as its the one day of the year we truly spoil our kids so he is going to really feel it. We took his PC away from him last year in July already as punishment and he hasn't got it back yet. I really don't know what further we could do now at this stage to punish him for totally screwing up this school year, maybe cancel xmas too for him .. I don't know, I really don't. he is 17, not 7.

I mentioned these events not because I condone them, its because I just wanted to give an example of the stuff he does. Its mostly stupid stuff but he should know better, but it seems to fly over his head and then is all shocked when he gets into shyte. The husband has always said he would make a terrible criminal, almost every time he does something naughty, he gets caught but I think that is only because most of the time, he doesn't seem to think he is doing anything wrong. Ie: drive the car because my friend needed me, why cant I help a friend? Toss his shoe around like a rugby ball, I didn't mean to break the light, totally disregarding he was tossing his shoe because his ball had been confiscated as he is not allowed to throw anything in the room etc etc.

 

[STS]

it's strange how parents differ, i could never imagine taking a belt to my son or canceling something that matters to him, even if it was to teach him a lesson.

i think kids need more listening to rather than disciplining these days

 

[STS]

one day i've never forgotten, is that my mom told my father to discipline me with a belt in the room for something i had done. i don't remember what i did, but i remember my dad taking me to the room, locking the door, taking out a belt, then telling me to fake cry, and hit the bed hard 3 times.

i've always had respect for my dad since that day and have never wanted to disappoint him

 

[RiaX]

Thanks so much for everyones opinions, I really do value all the input.

Lol, I cried because I couldn't stop myself. I cried because I was hurt, disappointed, frustrated and angry that we are going through this again. But mostly because Im scared for him, I don't know where to from here. if that makes any sense. Haha, yep, maybe there is hope for him then after your description of your younger days. Lol, if by some miracle he gets a matric and mentions an interest in going to varsity, I think I will need a years supply of valium on hand at all times.

perhaps you need to be tough. You cant break down when he does something wrong and you cant expect him to know where he is suppose to go. He is in grade 10 his future goals go as far as his weekend plans. So toughen yourself up and put your foot down. Time you make the boy realise that education is important.

As I say a good education is the difference between waiting at the bus stop or driving past it

 

[Carol35]

^This.

@Carol: was only he kicked out of hostel? If so, then challenge the school and request that he be reinstated. Sit the kid down and explain to him how serious the situation is - he is about mess up his whole life. Note the "he" part, this is not your fault nor a result of your parenting. It's time the kid wakes up and smells the roses.

yes, we are doing that this morning, I just need them to give him 6 weeks to finish the year, if he is pulled out now, no other school will take him, resulting he will not pass this grade, resulting in the fact he will have to redo this year somewhere else next year before we can put him in trade school...I hate to say but this is a HUUGE waste of money if he leaves now and the small fortune we have spent so far will have been for nothing.He will leave with a grade 9. (Std 7 for the oldies and he is already 17 now.

I have no idea to get him to realize how serious this is, none whats so ever! It literally just goes in one ear and out the other! When we chat with him, he says and does all he is supposed to but it just doesn't not sink in!

 

[Carol35]

Rules are rules - if the kid was drinking on school - and the parents and kid knew that these rules are enforced - then what else should the school do? Give the child a free pass?

If so. Does that give the rest of the kids free reign to drink on school and then to just have the parents come in and say, "In his defence, he was not drunk, falling over, wasn't aggressive or acting like an idiot, i confirmed this with the housemaster...the outcome would have been the same regardless if he drank 1 bottle of brandy or a sip of beer."

The kind of attitude to let it slide sets him up for always thinking he can get an easy ride - and in today's world, that could be destrcutive.

I wonder what the rest of the conservative crowd would have to say - those people whom go up in arms for speedsters on the road and lash out at those trying to get out of fines, etc.


I mean no ill will to you or your kid Carol - but if he'd already been testing the limits of the camel's back - then yourself along with the school may be at wits end. Thereby now resulting in having to part ways.

Fight the good fight and I hope everything works out for the best.

Thank you and yes, you are right. he has had chance after chance, where does the school draw the line to say no more? I don't blame them for the hostel debacle but am pretty nervous they wont let him finish the year. On the other side of the coin, he appears to be talkative and disruptive in the class, being the class clown...just because he doesn't feel the need to open his books, doesn't mean there are kids that also don't need to. Its not fair on the rest of the class environment. Exact words from principle were: "He is an incredible boy and Im very fond of him BUT we have bent over backwards for him, we can do no more and he must learn to take responsibility for his actions. he must now think about what he has done. So sorry."

PS: This is the second time we have been asked nicely to remove him from a school. His actions don't seem to be of explusion level, they simply don't want him there.

 

[za1]

Sorry, I didn't mention that he has been punished for the car, we have never allowed him to drive, in fact, I didn't even know he knew how to drive properly. Its his birthday next week and his punishment was cancellation of this day, it will pass as an ordinary day/no gifts etc and will be a birthday he truly remembers. We thought this was an adequate punishment as its the one day of the year we truly spoil our kids so he is going to really feel it. We took his PC away from him last year in July already as punishment and he hasn't got it back yet. I really don't know what further we could do now at this stage to punish him for totally screwing up this school year, maybe cancel xmas too for him .. I don't know, I really don't. he is 17, not 7.

I mentioned these events not because I condone them, its because I just wanted to give an example of the stuff he does. Its mostly stupid stuff but he should know better, but it seems to fly over his head and then is all shocked when he gets into shyte. The husband has always said he would make a terrible criminal, almost every time he does something naughty, he gets caught but I think that is only because most of the time, he doesn't seem to think he is doing anything wrong. Ie: drive the car because my friend needed me, why cant I help a friend? Toss his shoe around like a rugby ball, I didn't mean to break the light, totally disregarding he was tossing his shoe because his ball had been confiscated as he is not allowed to throw anything in the room etc etc.

this poor kid, what **** parents.

 

[ToxicBunny]

yes, we are doing that this morning, I just need them to give him 6 weeks to finish the year, if he is pulled out now, no other school will take him, resulting he will not pass this grade, resulting in the fact he will have to redo this year somewhere else next year before we can put him in trade school...I hate to say but this is a HUUGE waste of money if he leaves now and the small fortune we have spent so far will have been for nothing.He will leave with a grade 9. (Std 7 for the oldies and he is already 17 now.

I have no idea to get him to realize how serious this is, none whats so ever! It literally just goes in one ear and out the other! When we chat with him, he says and does all he is supposed to but it just doesn't not sink in!

Challenge the school properly on this one.

They will need to institute proper disciplinary stuff to expel him from the school.

In terms of how to get him to listen.... the only thing I can suggest is to start making the world a more "real" place for him somehow... make him pay rent so that he has to get a job (even if it is a menial one)... etc etc...

 

[ToxicBunny]

Also reading some of the posts, its almost as if your son has difficult connecting events in his head... this MIGHT be something you want to investigate... I'm not suggesting its whats wrong, but it might help you to understand and deal with him more effectively.

 

[Carol35]

Besides the supposed adhd that the head doc missdiagnosed, did the person find any other learning difficulties or issues?

Not really, he had a problem taking instruction and we were advised to minimize tasks and instruction to one at a time ( IE: he cannot multitask) but he was much younger then. I still need to send a list with him when he goes to the shop for me else he will invariably call me from the shop asking what he must get again, or leaves half the stuff behind. Strangely, if the stuff is for him, nothing gets forgotten.

Carol,

I've been thinking....

Look up middle child syndrome, you did say there are siblings before and after him.

I will check it out, thanks. He doesn't seem to have any issues with his siblings thou, the girls all adore and dote on him, often protecting him from shyte he gets up to!

 

[supersunbird]

I was thinking about this thread while driving to work. What went wrong might be too late to address now. Like the car taking thing, were there severe enough consequences/punishment? But the teaching of consequences needed to start much earlier.

Good luck though!

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Interesting responses.