Pope Francis

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Argentine Jorge Bergoglio has been elected pope, the first ever from the Americas and the first from outside Europe in more than a millennium. He chose the name Pope Francis.

Update:

Argentinian Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, who became Pope Francis 1 after his election as pontiff Wednesday, is the first pontiff from the Americas.

Bergoglio, 76, was a runner-up to Pope Benedict XVI in 2005.

He has been archbishop of Buenos Aires since 1998.

Pope John Paul II named him cardinal in 2001.
 
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A clean start from seems to be a humble man. There is hope.
 
Why not call him Pope Jorge. Francis sounds too english.
 
He strongly opposed legislation introduced in 2010 by the Argentine Government to allow same-sex marriage, calling it a "real and dire anthropological throwback".[10] In a letter to the monasteries of Buenos Aires, he wrote: "Let's not be naive, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God."[11] He has also insisted that adoption by gay and lesbian people is a form of discrimination against children

Same old nonsense then. Guess he wouldn't have got to where he is by going against the grain.
 
The guy looks a bit like a pedo. Wonder what will ever happen if the head of the church is found out to have messed with boys.
 
The Bible is quite "clear" on a few other things that have fallen by the wayside, too.

There is absolutely nothing that should fall away unless the Bible itself makes it clear certain sections are fulfilled or replaced, as is the case with the NT regarding many OT laws. But lets not get into that discussion, this thread is about the new Pope.
 
There is absolutely nothing that should fall away unless the Bible itself makes it clear certain sections are fulfilled or replaced, as is the case with the NT regarding many OT laws. But lets not get into that discussion, this thread is about the new Pope.
Back on topic. Do you think this pope being elected is the Will of God or the choice of man? Seeing you know your bible well.
 
Was it not a South American a couple of years who said dryly, when some Roman Catholic dignitary spoke about the church's position on sex and contraception ... "You don't playa da game, you don't make-a da rules".
 
Back on topic. Do you think this pope being elected is the Will of God or the choice of man? Seeing you know your bible well.

Well i think it's clear the catholic church are not totally aligned with God's perfect will at every turn, so the correct answer is a bit of both really. God may occasionally influence things, especially in cases where prayer and humility has lead those who run the church to seek his guidance and will, but the clear failings of the catholic church shows He largely allows man's choices to play out. The broad concept of sowing and reaping has to play out within the wider system. Any influence he chooses to manifest generally plays out in that context because that's how he chooses to deal with free agents.

If you look at the story of Israel in the OT. When the Israelites obeyed God and lived holy lives, in accordance with the laws he had give them, God blessed them and often positively intervened on their behalf as a clear consequence of their obedience. But when they repeatedly chose to sin generation after generation he eventually distanced himself somewhat, eventually allowing Satan and Israel's enemies to overtake them and carry them away. People make good and bad choices, and those choices either have good or bad consequences. If the Catholic church sort themselves out and begin to do a better job more closely resembling the actual Gospel presented in scripture, then obviously as a consequence of that they will gain a closer relationship with God and thus the benefits that relationship brings.
 
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If you look at the story of Israel in the OT. When the Israelites obeyed God and lived holy lives, in accordance with the laws he had give them, God blessed them and often positively intervened on their behalf as a clear consequence of their obedience. But when they repeatedly chose to sin generation after generation he eventually distanced himself somewhat, eventually allowing Satan and Israel's enemies to overtake them and carry them away. People make good and bad choices, and those choices either have good or bad consequences.

That god sounds like a dic. Just saying
 
I want to know where he was and what he was doing during Argentina's dirty war when the Military Junta were in power - For sure the Previous Cardinal aided and abetted the Junta. This new Pope certainly had some involvement.

Horacio Verbitsky is a leading Argentinean investigative journalist. He was given an International Press Freedom Award by the Committee to Protect Journalists in 2001. Among his books is The Silence: from Paulo VI to Bergoglio, the secret links between the Church and the Navy Mechanics School (2005) and The Flight: Confessions of an Argentine Dirty Warrior (New Press, 2005).
Argentina between 1976 and 1983 was wracked by a “dirty war” in which successive military regimes hunted down, tortured and “disappeared” tens of thousands of citizens. The process had begun when Argentina’s already febrile politics started to split open in the mid-1970s. The military seized power in a coup from Isabelita Peron’s government, in the wake of an armed insurgency by Montoneros guerrillas.

The dictatorship that followed consigned thousands of Argentineans into military detention. Most were tortured; a few were released, many were eventually murdered. These “disappeared” numbered in all around 30,000.

In 1979, the Inter-American Human Rights Commission visited Argentina and inspected the most notorious detention centre, the Navy Mechanical School in Buenos Aires. They found no prisoners. As Horacio Verbitsky reveals in this extract from his extraordinary book, the prisoners had been dispersed, some of them to El Silencio, an island property that had belonged to an official of the Catholic archbishop of Buenos Aires.

The Catholic church’s complicity in torture and murder in Argentina should be no surprise; it had, after all, long precedents in extreme doctrines that came to Argentina (and elsewhere in Latin America) from the far right in France. But many details of Horacio Verbitsky’s account are revelatory, and his researches are a vital contribution to continuing efforts in Argentina to reach a full historical, legal and moral accounting for the violations of the “dirty war” years.



http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-protest/catholicchurch_2709.jsp


Many Argentines remain angry over the church's acknowledged failure to openly confront a regime that was kidnapping and killing thousands of people as it sought to eliminate "subversive elements" in society. It's one reason why more than two-thirds of Argentines describe themselves as Catholic, but fewer than 10 percent regularly attend mass.

Under Bergoglio's leadership, Argentina's bishops issued a collective apology in October 2012 for the church's failures to protect its flock. But the statement blamed the era's violence in roughly equal measure on both the junta and its enemies.

"Bergoglio has been very critical of human rights violations during the dictatorship, but he has always also criticized the leftist guerrillas; he doesn't forget that side," Rubin said.

The bishops also said "we exhort those who have information about the location of stolen babies, or who know where bodies were secretly buried, that they realize they are morally obligated to inform the pertinent authorities."

That statement came far too late for some activists, who accused Bergoglio of being more concerned about the church's image than about aiding the many human rights investigations of the Kirchners' era.

Bergoglio twice invoked his right under Argentine law to refuse to appear in open court, and when he eventually did testify in 2010, his answers were evasive, human rights attorney Myriam Bregman said.

At least two cases directly involved Bergoglio. One examined the torture of two of his Jesuit priests – Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics – who were kidnapped in 1976 from the slums where they advocated liberation theology. Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery.

Both men were freed after Bergoglio took extraordinary, behind-the-scenes action to save them – including persuading dictator Jorge Videla's family priest to call in sick so that he could say Mass in the junta leader's home, where he privately appealed for mercy. His intervention likely saved their lives, but Bergoglio never shared the details until Rubin interviewed him for the 2010 biography.

Bergoglio – who ran Argentina's Jesuit order during the dictatorship – told Rubin that he regularly hid people on church property during the dictatorship, and once gave his identity papers to a man with similar features, enabling him to escape across the border. But all this was done in secret, at a time when church leaders publicly endorsed the junta and called on Catholics to restore their "love for country" despite the terror in the streets.

Rubin said failing to challenge the dictators was simply pragmatic at a time when so many people were getting killed, and attributed Bergoglio's later reluctance to share his side of the story as a reflection of his humility.

But Bregman said Bergoglio's own statements proved church officials knew from early on that the junta was torturing and killing its citizens, and yet publicly endorsed the dictators. "The dictatorship could not have operated this way without this key support," she said.

Bergoglio also was accused of turning his back on a family that lost five relatives to state terror, including a young woman who was 5-months' pregnant before she was kidnapped and killed in 1977. The De la Cuadra family appealed to the leader of the Jesuits in Rome, who urged Bergoglio to help them; Bergoglio then assigned a monsignor to the case. Months passed before the monsignor came back with a written note from a colonel: It revealed that the woman had given birth in captivity to a girl who was given to a family "too important" for the adoption to be reversed.

Despite this written evidence in a case he was personally involved with, Bergoglio testified in 2010 that he didn't know about any stolen babies until well after the dictatorship was over.

"Bergoglio has a very cowardly attitude when it comes to something so terrible as the theft of babies. He says he didn't know anything about it until 1985," said the baby's aunt, Estela de la Cuadra, whose mother Alicia co-founded the Grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo in 1977 in hopes of identifying these babies. "He doesn't face this reality and it doesn't bother him. The question is how to save his name, save himself. But he can't keep these allegations from reaching the public. The people know how he is."

Initially trained as a chemist, Bergoglio taught literature, psychology, philosophy and theology before taking over as Buenos Aires archbishop in 1998. He became cardinal in 2001, when the economy was collapsing, and won respect for blaming unrestrained capitalism for impoverishing millions of Argentines.

http://tinyurl.com/cbxvgxy
 
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