Pretoria or Tshwane

Angelo said:
The "extremely small proportion of the population" that you refer to is a good of way of defining those who oppose ranaming. Again those "bigger problems" do have their budget and shouldn't be used as an excuse to keep relics of the past. And it's interesting to note that the people who are most affected by the "big problems" are the ones who are supporting the name change and do not view it as a stumbing block to their problems getting attention.
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And where did you get this information from? People most affected by the "big problems" are who? Every South African citizen is experiencing South Africa's problems. There's no categorisation needed, but it appears that once again, you have obliged. Spending Billions of Rands on changing a name as opposed to spending it on, hey, anything worthwhile for South African citizens to me is a complete and utter waste of money. And it's a perfect example of trying to rewrite the history books by ill governance.
 
It's Simple:

Given the choice what would people choose:
1.) A house in Pretoria?
2.) Or sitting on the street in Tshwane?

Just remember that those that are advocating the name change will have a house in Tshwane.

:)
 
hj2k_x said:
intersting. Seems everyone agrees with the people on this forum then(or the majority at least)
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Like I said this has to do with the demographics of the people who voted and their access to voting facilities (and whether they are interested in these "polls")
 
Angelo said:
So are you saying only "imperative" issues should be addressed? and it's not imperative to who? Who defines the "imperative" issues in SA?
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I would say waisting money on changing a name that will have no practical advantage is not imperative.
 
Angelo said:
Like I said this has to do with the demographics of the people who voted and their access to voting facilities (and whether they are interested in these "polls")
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Well you don't actually know the demographics do you?
 
Angelo said:
The "extremely small proportion of the population" that you refer to is a good of way of defining those who oppose ranaming. Again those "bigger problems" do have their budget and shouldn't be used as an excuse to keep relics of the past.
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What else are relics of the past in your mind? As far as I know Pretoria was called Pretoria long before apartheid, so what exactly is the problem with the name?
 
When will the time come to change the name of telkom to something african remember telkom is a name given by an apartheid government so it should be removed! OR

Will it cost to much to change the name because telkom is trading on the New York stock?
 
Angelo said:
Are you saying it was not wrong that a Western name was enforced on Africans and their place of dwelling?
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In the context of a straightforward question like that perhaps?
But into account that we are talking about Pretoria and not generalising.

Was the area called anything else before it was named Pretoria in 1855?
Who was Andries Pretorius?
Who was Tshwane?
When and why did the Great Trek take place.
Why was Pretoria named Pretoria?
Was Pretorius a Refugee?
Were those tough times?

Pretorius was from North Western European descent.
His family had probably lived in the Cape Colony already for 150 years before the Great Trek and was probably already 5th or 6th generation born South African at the time of the naming of Pretoria.
Pretorius was a South African and I am honoured that he was part of our history.

Another point.
Is South Africa perhaps not proud of Andries Pretorius and all the things he did, as one can generalise and say that if people like him hadn't got off their derriere's 170 odd years ago and started to formalise the northern part of our country, we may still yet to have discovered diamonds, gold and other precious metals that put this country firmly on the map, so that we can now brag that we are the richest country in Africa.
 
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Angelo said:
BTTB that is the solution the government is proposing, but the minority are turning it down, they want the WHOLE area to retain its Apartheid era name.
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OK! :)

I was so busy posting my last post to you I missed this one.
That is the way I understand it?

kingmonty said:
no, there is a definitive movement to change the city's name to Thswane as well.
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Now I am confused.

Angelo said:
BTTB that is the solution the government is proposing, but the minority are turning it down, they want the WHOLE area to retain its Apartheid era name.
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Hi Angelo. :)
Please rephrase.
You surely know the history of Pretoria?
Perhaps that comment just leaped out of your typing fingers, but it is inaccurate. ;)
Pretoria was named Pretoria in 1855.
 
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Angelo said:
BTTB that is the solution the government is proposing, but the minority are turning it down, they want the WHOLE area to retain its Apartheid era name.
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I'm pretty sure it was named that before Apartheid.
 
Chuck all emotions out the window...

Now, who in his right mind can justify spending that ridiculous amount of money on a changing a name as opposed to using the same amount to provide services ? This is about the city name btw, not the metro
 
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BTTB said:
Pretorius was a South African and I am honoured that he was part of our history.

Another point.
Is South Africa perhaps not proud of Andries Pretorius and all the things he did,
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Interesting that you bring that up BTTB this was discussed before dont really want to bring it up again but if people cant be proud of Pretorius and other great white south africans how can they say that the afrikaans women monument should belong to all people ? Or do these people just choose what and who they want part of their history .

And Pretorius was also an african he fought for this country and died in the process of trying to get some peace between the nations
 
kingmonty said:
And where did you get this information from? People most affected by the "big problems" are who? Every South African citizen is experiencing South Africa's problems. There's no categorisation needed, but it appears that once again, you have obliged. Spending Billions of Rands on changing a name as opposed to spending it on, hey, anything worthwhile for South African citizens to me is a complete and utter waste of money. And it's a perfect example of trying to rewrite the history books by ill governance.
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But it's no rocket science that some sections of the population are more affected than others. You seem to think that the importance of one problem/issue diminishes the importance of others and my question to you then is what is the use of having GVT departments then as we have a ministry for all spheres from those spending money on having more trees planted to those spending money on developing entertainers rather than having one or just two departments dealing with those "big problems"?
 
icyrus said:
I would say waisting money on changing a name that will have no practical advantage is not imperative.
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The fact that you consider it useless to have people's dignity restored shows how far reconciliation still has to go in this country.
 
Angelo said:
The fact that you consider it useless to have people's dignity restored shows how far reconciliation still has to go in this country.
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Now you are just trolling. How is changing the name of Pretoria restoring anyone's dignity? Please explain this one to me.
 
icyrus said:
What else are relics of the past in your mind? As far as I know Pretoria was called Pretoria long before apartheid, so what exactly is the problem with the name?
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IC with due respect I don't think it will be productive for me to engage in this debate with you if you can still genuinely pose such a question in this day and age.
 
Angelo said:
IC with due respect I don't think it will be productive for me to engage in this debate with you if you can still genuinely pose such a question in this day and age.
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Why? My personal opinion of the name change is this: I don't care what the name is or what it could be I just think there are better things to spend time and money on at this stage.

There, now we have the starting point. Tell me how asking how Pretoria is such a problem, is in itself now a problem? Is the problem that it was named that by whites?
 
BTTB said:
OK! :)
Perhaps that comment just leaped out of your typing fingers, but it is inaccurate. ;)
Pretoria was named Pretoria in 1855.
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Do you think the fact that it was named 1800s rather than say 1967 makes it acceptable to the majority?
 
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