Pretoria or Tshwane

[icyrus]

Do you the fact that it was named 1800s rather than say 1967 makes it acceptable to the majority?

Ahh, so now we are approaching the crux of the matter. The name isn't acceptable because it was given that by whites. But, oddly enough, all the infrastructure built by the whites etc... is acceptable. No problem with that - just as long as it doesn't have a white name. I see.

So whites have no part in South Africa's history then? They have contributed nothing of value other than oppression and suffering right?

 

[Angelo]

Why? My personal opinion of the name change is this: I don't care what the name is or what it could be I just think there are better things to spend time and money on at this stage.

There, now we have the starting point. Tell me how asking how Pretoria is such a problem, is in itself now a problem? Is the problem that it was named that by whites?

Are you concerned that it will cost money to change the name or is your problem the fact that that part of the country is now going to bear an African name. If your problem is the former, did you feel so strongly about African identities being stripped in favour of Western ones?

 

[icyrus]

Are you concerned that it will cost money to change the name or is your problem the fact that that part of the country is now going to bear an African name. If your problem is the former, did you feel so strongly about African identities being stripped in favour of Western ones?

I think I quite clearly stated that I think its a waste of money. I don't have a problem with an african name. I do, however, think its foolish to change the name just because it was given that name by whites. If they wanted to change it because it was a simbol of apartheid or oppression I can understand that and thats why I asked what is the problem with pretoria as a name.

 

[Angelo]

Now you are just trolling. How is changing the name of Pretoria restoring anyone's dignity? Please explain this one to me.

With due respect please do a search on other political threads and you'll see where the issue was discussed and exhausted.

 

[kingmonty]

But it's no rocket science that some sections of the population are more affected than others. You seem to think that the importance of one problem/issue diminishes the importance of others and my question to you then is what is the use of having GVT departments then as we have a ministry for all spheres from those spending money on having more trees planted to those spending money on developing entertainers rather than having one or just two departments dealing with those "big problems"?

Renaming a city is not a priority. Period.

 

[Angelo]

Ahh, so now we are approaching the crux of the matter. The name isn't acceptable because it was given that by whites. But, oddly enough, all the infrastructure built by the whites etc... is acceptable. No problem with that - just as long as it doesn't have a white name. I see.

So whites have no part in South Africa's history then? They have contributed nothing of value other than oppression and suffering right?

With statements like this I wonder who is trolling between me and you.

 

[icyrus]

With statements like this I wonder who is trolling between me and you.

Really? Why? Is this not the point you were getting at?

 

[kingmonty]

Are you concerned that it will cost money to change the name or is your problem the fact that that part of the country is now going to bear an African name. If your problem is the former, did you feel so strongly about African identities being stripped in favour of Western ones?

There's no need to change the name. Why change an internationally recognised name on the whim of a political strategy?

 

[Angelo]

I think I quite clearly stated that I think its a waste of money. I don't have a problem with an african name. I do, however, think its foolish to change the name just because it was given that name by whites. If they wanted to change it because it was a simbol of apartheid or oppression I can understand that and thats why I asked what is the problem with pretoria as a name.

The renaming is more about Africans than it is about whites, it's is to restore the names that were there before occupation, sounds fair enough to me.

 

[kingmonty]

With due respect please do a search on other political threads and you'll see where the issue was discussed and exhausted.

In all other political threads where this was discussed, no one in any thread successfully defended a name change as a protection of dignity.

 

[Angelo]

I think I quite clearly stated that I think its a waste of money. I don't have a problem with an african name. I do, however, think its foolish to change the name just because it was given that name by whites. If they wanted to change it because it was a simbol of apartheid or oppression I can understand that and thats why I asked what is the problem with pretoria as a name.

Yes old sport that and the fact that Africans want their names restored is the main motivation.

 

[icyrus]

With due respect please do a search on other political threads and you'll see where the issue was discussed and exhausted.

Searched for "pretoria name change" in the news and current afairs section but alas the results weren't "exhaustive". Care to provide a link?

 

[Angelo]

Renaming a city is not a priority. Period.

As a white who grew up in the Apartheid era your thinking is perfectly understandable.

 

[icyrus]

The renaming is more about Africans than it is about whites

First thing: are whites not africans aswell? Are only blacks allowed to be african?

it's is to restore the names that were there before occupation, sounds fair enough to me.

Correct me if I am wrong, but there was no city there before. They built a city and called it Pretoria so what name could it have had before it existed?

 

[Angelo]

There's no need to change the name. Why change an internationally recognised name on the whim of a political strategy?

Believe me in time Tshwane will be just as internationally recognisable as any other name, besides "international recognition" is not the motive for renaming locations.

 

[Angelo]

Searched for "pretoria name change" in the news and current afairs section but alas the results weren't "exhaustive". Care to provide a link?

Rather try terms like "African dignity", "colonisation", "occupation", "slavery" "western name(s)" etc.

 

[kingmonty]

As a white who grew up in the Apartheid era your thinking is perfectly understandable.

Wtf has Apatheid got to do with this? There is other more important bigger things to worry about. Also, Pretoria is a worldwide known city, that happens to be the recognised capital of South Africa. The cost of changing the name won't just impact a couple of people living there, it will impact big business, mapping studios, legislation, economies, and so much more. Pretoria (as so many people keep pointing out) was established long before apartheid, on ground that didn't belong to anyone (including your so-called Africans).

 

[kingmonty]

Believe me in time Tshwane will be just as internationally recognisable as any other name, besides "international recognition" is not the motive for renaming locations.

No it won't. Half the world will not even be able to pronounce it.

 

[Angelo]

In all other political threads where this was discussed, no one in any thread successfully defended a name change as a protection of dignity.

By "successfully defended" you mean they didn't get you and others to agree?

*please provide links to those debates to Icyrus*

 

[kingmonty]

Rather try terms like "African dignity", "colonisation", "occupation", "slavery" "western name(s)" etc.

Take your BS somewhere else. I'm tired of your nonsensical rhetoric. This is the New South Africa, and it's time that people with your mindset get out of the Apartheid blaming era, and move into the next one.