Pretoria or Tshwane

Sad

kingmonty said:
Erm, So Africans don't include whites? Here you go with your racist BS again.

  1. *Africans* (to use your term) will try anything to remove the whites from their History, Name Changing is simply just another such strategy
  2. Renaming is a waste of money, ans also an extremely racist action
  3. Nobody arguing in these threads have been able to successfully prove what Pretoria was named before it was founded as Pretoria
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Damn! some people?..................for days forumites and Mods (including RPM) have been preaching for people to avoid personal attacks and childishness and here we go again, just because somebody doesn't agree/can't debate with me.
 
kingmonty said:
Nobody "debating" in these threads have been able to successfully prove what Pretoria was named before it was founded as Pretoria
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This was one of my points that are unanswered.

Perhaps Angelo is trying to indicate that Pretoria was seen as the Apartheid Capital? A symbol of oppression?

But whatever happens nobody in this world, can alter History.
 
Angelo said:
Damn! some people?..................for days forumites and Mods (including RPM) have been preaching for people to avoid personal attacks and childishness and here we go again, just because somebody doesn't agree/can't debate with me.
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Excuse me? You categorised whites separate from "Africans". Not me, you.
 
icyrus said:
First thing: are whites not africans aswell? Are only blacks allowed to be african?
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That's possibly a whole independent debate for another thread, Im only referring to Blacks as Africans (not saying Whites aren't) if that's okay with you?
 
icyrus said:
Angelo said:
The renaming is more about Africans than it is about whites
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First thing: are whites not africans aswell? Are only blacks allowed to be african?
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Angelo, before this debate can go any further I think that its important that you address this issue as its at the heart of the matter. So, what do you say?

Edit: I see you answered while I was posting this.
 
kingmonty said:
No it won't. Half the world will not even be able to pronounce it.
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Do they name cities so that WE can be able to pronounce them elsewhere in the world?
 
BTTB said:
This was one of my points that are unanswered.

Perhaps Angelo is trying to indicate that Pretoria was seen as the Apartheid Capital? A symbol of oppression?

But whatever happens nobody in this world, can alter History.
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The point is that History is a perspective of an era, and today's perspective of the past is being scewed - not the perspective of the Apartheid era, everyone knows what happened then was innately bad - but of what happened literally hundreds of years ago. That history is not only being scewed, but it is being butchered rather severely.

Every government throughout history has attempted to write its own history - but those governments who try to alter previous history inevitably become oppressive governments. We've seen that with Hitler, Apartheid, heck, all over Africa in the last couple of decades.
 
Seems like a expensive task especially when the money might otherwise be better spent - cops, hospitals, schools, etc.

If we didnt have these things to worry about and if its something that would mend some fences then I'd be all for it. Renaming isnt uncommon around the world - thank goodness as I'd rather live in New York than New Amsterdam or New Orange!

What is in a name?
 
Angelo said:
That's possibly a whole independent debate for another thread, Im only referring to Blacks as Africans (not saying Whites aren't) if that's okay with you?
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You can if you want to, but I don't see the logic in it and it will just lead to confusion.

My other point though was that the whites didn't rename an existing city pretoria, they called a new city that they built pretoria, so I can't see how the logic of changing the name back to the original african ones is valid here.
 
kingmonty said:
Take your BS somewhere else. I'm tired of your nonsensical rhetoric. This is the New South Africa, and it's time that people with your mindset get out of the Apartheid blaming era, and move into the next one.
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Well montie thanks very much for spoiling the thread, there are many other people who are strongly against the renaming but they didn't resort to childish statements like yours. Now the countdown begins for the thread's locking.:(
 
Angelo said:
That's possibly a whole independent debate for another thread, Im only referring to Blacks as Africans (not saying Whites aren't) if that's okay with you?
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One last thing of this: I don't see how it can even be a debate, but I would be happy to give my views and hear others on this issue. You are right, though, that this thread is not the place for it.
 
kingmonty said:
Take your BS somewhere else. I'm tired of your nonsensical rhetoric. This is the New South Africa, and it's time that people with your mindset get out of the Apartheid blaming era, and move into the next one.
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If you think you think my sentiments are "Apartheid blaming" then good luck to you if you remain in this country because you are still going to encounter a lot of people who share my sentiments and who might not react as kindly as me to what you just said.
 
Angelo said:
If you think you think my sentiments are "Apartheid blaming" then good luck to you if you remain in this country because you are still going to encounter a lot of people who share my sentiments and who might not react as kindly as me to what you just said.
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It is exactly Apartheid blaming. Not a single day goes by that I do not come across some or other person blaming apartheid for whatever they possibly can.
 
Angelo: Why do you want Pretoria's name changed to Tshwane?
 
icyrus said:
You can if you want to, but I don't see the logic in it and it will just lead to confusion.

My other point though was that the whites didn't rename an existing city pretoria, they called a new city that they built pretoria, so I can't see how the logic of changing the name back to the original african ones is valid here.
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Where do you get this hoax that Tswane was a bare land without inhabitants?
 
And who decides what is an "African" name? Afrikaaners gave Pretoria it's name - in other words, people who saw AFRICA their home, not some place in Europe. Afrikaans is an African language, it's not Dutch anymore, and it developed and changed on THIS continent.
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Okay one thing and one thing all caucasian people in South Africa must understand is that you are South Afircan, but you are not a Native! Period.

No matter how long I stay in Japan and have great grand childern, they may be Japanese by nationality, but not by origin. Hence, they will never be Natives as there are no bronze Japapnese people.

We are not going to get into debates into when settlers arrived in Africa, point is they arrived! The Natives never arrived at any point they were here from the get go.

Now about the cost of the name change? Lets say it is 1.5BN compared to exaclty how much the Apartheid Government spent on systematically oppressing the people that they deemed not fit to live with.

All that's being chaged is a name, nothing is being taken away from you that was not yours in the first place.
If you really believe you're entitled to a non Afircan name on African soil then you clearly don't belong here and you'd do youself a favor and leave.
No natives were consulted about naming the place Pretoria, it was just done. People should be glad you're even being consulted or even getting a say in the matter at all.

And, Steve Hofmeyer is a prick! :p {Jokes...not really!}
 
icyrus said:
One last thing of this: I don't see how it can even be a debate, but I would be happy to give my views and hear others on this issue. You are right, though, that this thread is not the place for it.
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Thanks for understanding and I have no interest in that thread should it be created.
 
kingmonty said:
It is exactly Apartheid blaming. Not a single day goes by that I do not come across some or other person blaming apartheid for whatever they possibly can.
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I don't expect that your opinion will change from this debate (for as long as it remains unlocked) I'm just saying good luck to you because for years to come you are going to encounter a lot of people who share my opinion, the same opinion you refer to as ********.
 
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