Pretoria or Tshwane

Angelo said:
I know, thanks anyway my learned friend.
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And why can't it just stay that way?



RANT
Why can't the mayor just drive around in her R1 million Merc and be happy? (Oh, does the Merc also make Africans feel proud of their heratige, if not, why she get it?)
/RANT
 
supersunbird said:
And that is how I want it to stay...
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Fortunately and perhaps unfortunately for you it's no longer about what the minority want.
 
This thread is moving so fast I cannot keep up. :)
Will make a comment later when it calms.
 
Must I go get my black friends that stay in in Pretoria (Thulani in Attridgeville and Levi that stays in Shosanguve) and have them come tell you they dont want the name change (Thulani just wants a job, he is very desperate and Levi just wants his sisters kids (parents(sis and husband) are dead) to have good schooling)?
 
kingmonty said:
Ok, so changing Pretoria's name to Tshwane will preserve African's (actually only Black African's) dignity?
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Monty I'm very dissapointed with the way you conducted yourself in this thread but the last thing I will say to you is African places should and will get African names, if you prefer Western names feel free to leave and settle in Western cities with Western names (rightly so).
 
Angelo said:
Fortunately and perhaps unfortunately for you it's no longer about what the minority want.
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90 percent of respondents to a poll said they don't want this. 90% is minority how again?
 
Straight Answer

Angelo

Two Questions.

1. Are you dumb? yes or no

2. Did the inegenous people developed the wheel? Yes or no
 
"Haha now I'm confused. You're reason was that it was restoring the african name, but we have covered the fact that pretoria city never did have an african name. So you must have another reason which, I'm hoping, isn't just because whites named it that."
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Anybody's being white was never and will never be a problem. Its what was being done under that label that is the problem.
Oh! There are no black Africans, there are Africans only. I can naver be a Black Asisan can I?

I also find it strange that it is without fail every year we all get reminded of how horrible the Holocaust was more than 50years ago (and it was a down right Tragedy that should never happen to any people ever!). But to bring up apartheid which was nly stopped just over 12years ago is bringing up the past. :/

And you can't do something to someone then decide how long it should take for them to forgive you and how and what can and can't be changed.
 
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Angelo said:
Monty I'm very dissapointed with the way you conducted yourself in this thread but the last thing I will say to you is African places should and will get African names, if you prefer Western names feel free to leave and settle in Western cities with Western names (rightly so).
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What? Traditionally thoughout the world (even in Black cultures) cities were named in many ways - one of these being that cities may be named after the people that founded them. So wtf is the problem here? Pretoria is an African name of African descent - named after a very important historical figure.

I don't care if I disappoint you. You obviously couldn't care less that this is a country with a mixed heritage - not just a black one. And you expecting people not happy with the happenings in this country to get up and leave is simply an indication of how brilliant ANC rhetoric affects the majority in this country.
 
Angelo said:
Monty I'm very dissapointed with the way you conducted yourself in this thread but the last thing I will say to you is African places should and will get African names, if you prefer Western names feel free to leave and settle in Western cities with Western names (rightly so).
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So now we are back to the crux of the matter which you don't want to discuss. Only black names are african and only blacks are african. In the end this is going nowhere.

My last word on the issue is this: you cannot change history and some things the whites did in africa are worth remembering. Its sad that the government wants to erase all parts of white history expect for the bad things they did. Those they want to hilight. This is not the way forward and it is definatly not the way to run a country "for all people".
 
Yeah mayority rule!! Even if they don't make sense to the minority!!

**********************************************

But, if you take on a world view, things change slightly:

For instance:

You can not expect to have the best technology (like broadband) if you adopt a typical "Black African" mindset as portrayed in this thread. If your frame of mind is to rather spend 1.2 billion to dignify people than to spend 1.2 billion to boost economic and educational growth then you might end up inventing the wheel last.
**

Please read my "Black African" comment very loose as I don't want to generalise but rather attempt to describe the idealogy behind the proposed name change.
 
ShockG said:
I also find it strange that it is without fail every year we all get reminded of how horrible the Holocaust was more than 50years ago (and it was a down right Tragedy that should never happen to any people ever!).
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As a person with a Jewish background I am particularly interested to know who brought up the Holocaust in this debate. Particularly more acutely interesting to me would be how many people bring up the holocaust vs how many people bring up or blame apartheid.
 
Getafix said:
Angelo

Two Questions.

1. Are you dumb? yes or no

2. Did the inegenous people developed the wheel? Yes or no
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Did you mean "Indigenous people develop"?:)
 
kingmonty said:
What? Traditionally thoughout the world (even in Black cultures) cities were named in many ways - one of these being that cities may be named after the people that founded them. So wtf is the problem here? Pretoria is an African name of African descent - named after a very important historical figure.

I don't care if I disappoint you. You obviously couldn't care less that this is a country with a mixed heritage - not just a black one. And you expecting people not happy with the happenings in this country to get up and leave is simply an indication of how brilliant ANC rhetoric affects the majority in this country.
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pfff.........you are starting to sound like Pupa and Ajak everyday, good luck to those who still care to engage you.
 
ShockG said:
Anybody's being white was never and will never be a problem. Its what was being done under that label that is the problem.
Oh! There are no black Africans, there are Africans only. I can naver be a Black Asisan can I?

I also find it strange that it is without fail every year we all get reminded of how horrible the Holocaust was more than 50years ago (and it was a down right Tragedy that should never happen to any people ever!). But to bring up apartheid which was nly stopped just over 12years ago is bringing up the past. :/

And you can't do something to someone then decide how long it should take for them to forgive you and how and what can and can't be changed.
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This statement has been made a hundred times on this forum by level headed people of all races, I guess those who don't get it will never get it and will only suffer the consequences.
 
No here's the thing you'll never be forgiven until you come right.
The sad reality is that your opinion doesn't count anymore because when it did count you made it law! You ****ed up so deal with it.

I bring up the holocaust because one is always reminded (I repeat again) how painful it was for the Jewish people etc. People sympathize and shed a tear. Apartheid, people defend it and try and hold on to it. As if to say the pain of losing people you over to injustice is different if you're Jewish or Sotho.

The genral attitude on this forum (save for the few who don't falunder this banner) is that SA is going down the drain, as if it was so great before. It was great because the minority were in power, doing as they pleased when they pleased. Now that things are changed its going down the drain? :/

Believe it or not no, African shares any heritage with you. You want to force your heritage on people even upto this day, no matter the cost. You want them to respect it when you did not respect theirs. After how you treated the people that were rightfully here you still want a say in how things happen. This is either extreme arrogance or irreproachable stupidity. I'm leaning towards the former, but make room for the latter.

The nice thing is that I may fail to make you see where the African is coming from, but that is besides the point because it'll be Tswane anyway.
:)

D.F Malan was changed to Beyers Nauder in honor of a man who made a difference. In honor of someone who was not a native but took it upon himself to fight against what was wrong and could rightfully call himself an African. :)

Nobody is wiping out The history of whites, the ones worth honoring are being honored and the rest are being done away with.(Their monuments that is) Its that simple
 
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angelo you say pretoria should get an african name even though afrikaans is an african language spoken only by south AFRICANS i would pretoria is already and african name .

You keep on pointing out how we dont want it renamed because it was named by whites but dont u perhaps want it renamed so get a black name
 
Angelo said:
As a white who grew up in the Apartheid era your thinking is perfectly understandable.
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Nice generalisation there. And as a black who grew up in the Apartheid era your thinking is perfectly understandable.
By "successfully defended" you mean they didn't get you and others to agree?

*please provide links to those debates to Icyrus*
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That's not how it works, you brought it up so you must provide the links, not the other forumites.
If you watched The Big Question, the anti-Tshwane people were saying it's not enough that only the inner-city should remain Pretoria, they want the name to be retained overall, it's their way (even thougg they are the minority) or the highway (excuse the pun)
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I think what they are saying is that the whole Pretoria should remain Pretoria. The metro includes places other than Pretoria and that is already called Tswane. Why does anyone want to rename only part of the city anyway and keep the core as Pretoria? Sounds just as flawed to me.
Angelo said:
Nice try at Propaganda. :D
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Are you perhaps referring to the SABC propaganda calling Pretoria by the name Tswane when it is not. Only stating that they should go to the people who think a name change is more important than food.
 
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