Racial Classification

[Nick333]

The K and N words, if I think I know what you mean, are derogative. The term "non-African" word is not derogative. If you believe it is, then it is a false perception created by yourself.

Black Americans decided they were offended by the term Negro, it became a derogatory term. My perception is perfectly valid thanks.

 

[Xarog]

BEE and AA are two excellent tools to correct the wrongs of the past.

It's still discrimination, and discrimination based on ethnicity. Your argument fails.

If there were never any Apartheid, it would not have been necessary for corrective measures like BEE and AA.

Irrelevant.

I find it ironic that you complain about BEE and AA, when the atrocities of Apartheid were much worse than even the most extreme stretch of imagination of BEE and AA implementation.

*I* find it ironic that the majority as a whole said "this is wrong!" and then went and created apartheid-lite.

 

[Capetonian688]

There is plenty I could do if I chose to. If what you say was true African-Americans would still be known as Negroes.

Then if you so strongly believe in the success and efficiency as what was applied in America, regarding the renaming of African-Americans vs Negroes, then do like they did and rally support for a new political party that can successfully pass a bill to parliament and have it implemented based on sufficient seats and support. But until then, as it stands, whites are non-Africans and that is how it will be.

 

[Capetonian688]

Black Americans decided they were offended by the term Negro, it became a derogatory term. My perception is perfectly valid thanks.

The term Negro was never officially and administratively implemented by the US Government. Non-African, on the other hand, is officially and administratively implemented by the SA government. Big difference.

 

[Capetonian688]

It's still discrimination, and discrimination based on ethnicity. Your argument fails.


Irrelevant.


*I* find it ironic that the majority as a whole said "this is wrong!" and then went and created apartheid-lite.

Your statements I do not understand.

 

[feo]

Multi quote FTW!

 

[Capetonian688]

It's still discrimination, and discrimination based on ethnicity.

You need to balance your outlook on BEE and AA with the Apartheid past it attemps to correct:

Stealing on its own, is wrong.
Putting someone in prison on its own, is wrong.
Together, they cancel out each other, and the latter is an extreme corrective measure to address the extreme wrongdoings of the former. Result is that normal and neutral circumstances will prevail.

Apartheid on its own, is wrong.
BEE and AA on its own, is wrong.
Together, they cancel out each other, and the latter is an extreme corrective measure to address the extreme wrongdoings of the former. Result is that normal and neutral circumstances will prevail.

Do you understand now? I hope so. So stop complaining.

 

[Debbie]

Many moons ago Whilst at school I remember my English teacher coming into the classroom with a puzzled look on his face. When we asked him what might be wrong, he answered "I had to place a call to America, when the receptionist took the call I over heard her saying she had an African on the phone". Continuing he added, "I cannot fault her."

It was there and then I realized I was an African, regardless of skin colour.

I think there's a lesson in that, an impartial observer without any emotional ties; seeing what was in front of them.

Lovely anecdote Slooth!

Well, you may have your reasons against being called a non-African, if you are not black, but the point of the matter is that the SA Government has decided that you are non-African. You may refer to all Government websites, administration, census processes, definitions, etc. to name but a few. So you have to comply with the Government's classification terminology, and there is nothing you can do about that. It has been decided like that and will never ever change.

So deal with it.

Although I'm a little white chick, I could say I'm a black African. Prove me wrong.

 

[Capetonian688]

Lovely anecdote Slooth!



Although I'm a little white chick, I could say I'm a black African. Prove me wrong.

Brave words on an internet forum. However, next time you are at your nearest Department of Home Affairs and fills out any BI form, and indicate you are "African", the kind official behind the counter will simply cross out your indication and mark it "White" instead for you, or even better, give you a whole new blank form to fill in again from scratch, making sure you indicate yourself as "White" this time around.

Try telling the official, rather, "Prove me wrong".

 

[Bona Botse]

well me and our prez think that African means exactly that, belonging to or coming from Africa. i hardly think his speech "I am an African" meant "I am Black"

 

[Xarog]

Stealing on its own, is wrong.
Putting someone in prison on its own, is wrong.
Together, they cancel out each other, and the latter is an extreme corrective measure to address the extreme wrongdoings of the former. Result is that normal and neutral circumstances will prevail.

Yeah, but only after guilt has been determined in a court of law. You're effectively declaring that all whites are guilty, to which I say, go sit on a volcano.

Apartheid on its own, is wrong.
BEE and AA on its own, is wrong.

They're wrong any which way you look at it.

Together, they cancel out each other, and the latter is an extreme corrective measure to address the extreme wrongdoings of the former. Result is that normal and neutral circumstances will prevail.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Do you understand now? I hope so. So stop complaining.

I understand perfectly clearly : you're a bigoted racist who's happy to permit discrimination so long as it benefits you.

 

[Capetonian688]

Yeah, but only after guilt has been determined in a court of law. You're effectively declaring that all whites are guilty, to which I say, go sit on a volcano.

Two wrongs don't make a right.


I understand perfectly clearly : you're a bigoted racist who's happy to permit discrimination so long as it benefits you.

Whites themselves declared they are guilty of Apartheid. Your president De Klerk admitted it many times. There is no better conviction of guilt than self-admittance!

Two wrongs don't make a right: SA goverment procedures and implementations are decided on practicality and effectiveness, not on over-used cliches and phrases.

Your last statement: sounds to me pretty much the same as during Apartheid!

 

[ettubrute]

Ok, so I am an European... actually been born there! But... am I Nordic (blond, blue eyes) or Italian (dark hair and skin, brown eyes)? Calling us European is plain stupid! Same for African: many different kind of African people exist! There is, and will be, only one solution: call us all South African, and become colour blind as to skin tone!

 

[Xarog]

Whites themselves declared they are guilty of Apartheid. Your president De Klerk admitted it many times.

*my president?*

I never voted for the man. He was out of office when I was 11. Don't make assumptions.

There is no better conviction of guilt than self-admittance!

Oh, well, I'm an african, and all africans are idiots. There, there's no better conviction... congratulations, you're an idiot.

Two wrongs don't make a right: SA goverment procedures and implementations are decided on practicality and effectiveness, not on over-used cliches and phrases.

PUHLEASE.

SA government procedures have absolutely nothing to do with truly trying to right past wrongs. The ANC is only interested in keeping it's hold on power while it enriches itself. It declares to the majority that they're taking care of them, they make all these BS laws for the purpose of 'righting past wrongs', and then they go and totall neglect the education system, creating a class of serfs.

The ANC is MORE than happy to leave the poor and geniunely 'previously disadvantaged' in the dirt. Their 13 years in power has proven this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Nick333]

Then if you so strongly believe in the success and efficiency as what was applied in America, regarding the renaming of African-Americans vs Negroes, then do like they did and rally support for a new political party that can successfully pass a bill to parliament and have it implemented based on sufficient seats and support. But until then, as it stands, whites are non-Africans and that is how it will be.

It does sort of contradict your assertion that theres nothing that can be done about it though doesn't it?

 

[Capetonian688]

*my president?*

I never voted for the man. He was out of office when I was 11. Don't make assumptions.

Voting for him has got nothing to do with it. He was your president never mind how old you were. Even if you were a baby, he (or Botha) was the president of South Africa, and if you lived in South Africa at the time, he would have been your president.

 

[Vrotappel]

Brave words on an internet forum. However, next time you are at your nearest Department of Home Affairs and fills out any BI form, and indicate you are "African", the kind official behind the counter will simply cross out your indication and mark it "White" instead for you, or even better, give you a whole new blank form to fill in again from scratch, making sure you indicate yourself as "White" this time around.

Try telling the official, rather, "Prove me wrong".

Classification based on race is racism. This government did not learn from the mistakes of the previous government. Next time I am at the Department of Home Affairs I will simply bribe the African behind the counter and will be classified an African myself.

 

[Capetonian688]

It does sort of contradict your assertion that theres nothing that can be done about it though doesn't it?

The likelyhood that non-Africans will be able to bring to leg a political party that can pass a bill to change the classification terminology, is so extremely miniscule small, that for me, it is as good as saying "nothing can be done about it"!

 

[Vrotappel]

Voting for him has got nothing to do with it. He was your president never mind how old you were. Even if you were a baby, he (or Botha) was the president of South Africa, and if you lived in South Africa at the time, he would have been your president.

Your president as well by your definition. So what's your point?

 

[Nick333]

The term Negro was never officially and administratively implemented by the US Government. Non-African, on the other hand, is officially and administratively implemented by the SA government. Big difference.

Non-African isn't an official term AFAIK. I'm taking issue with the fact that the term African is used to describe black people which implies that non-black people are non-african. The fact that African is an official would seem to make my case stronger. The point is that there is precedent for minorities to take issue with racial terms and that arguably something can be done. You have since supported my argument so what are you still arguing for anyway?