Salaries in job posts

[Nerfherder]

*applauds* SPOT ON Deadmanza. The whole happy-clappy 'work for personal fulfillment' thing goes right out the window the very first time your company makes a patently wrong decision solely for profit, and not because of other happy-clappy 'it's in the customers' best interest' explanations.

Let's not kid ourselves: there is NOBODY here who is working who isn't doing it for the money ultimately. Our lifes would be way more fulfilling just sitting in cafes all day, gazing at the sea and thinking creative thoughts ... instead we choose to spend nine hours every day inside an access-controlled environment, soaking up the artificial lighting and being surrounded by people who're somehow more depressed than we are. Reason? Money.

Sure we all are looking for more money, I'm not going to leave my job for less than what I'm currently earning. The point of a new job though is to grow and explore new opportunities, to me if you are asking for the salary upfront it looks like you are there just to get an increase on your current job.
That is the companies worst nightmare, they spend all this time on looking at the candidates then they take the offer back to their old job and ask for an increase.

So cool, if you are not interested because there is no firm offer in the advert then great. Perhaps it's better you don't apply.

 

[Hamster]

Sure we all are looking for more money, I'm not going to leave my job for less than what I'm currently earning. The point of a new job though is to grow and explore new opportunities, to me if you are asking for the salary upfront it looks like you are there just to get an increase on your current job.
That is the companies worst nightmare, they spend all this time on looking at the candidates then they take the offer back to their old job and ask for an increase.

So cool, if you are not interested because there is no firm offer in the advert then great. Perhaps it's better you don't apply.

When we are looking for growth and better opportunities, we look for them. If they want to pull you away from your current job they need to tell you why you'd want to work for them.

When they list jobs without a salary amongst jobs with salaries that just list all the tech you need to know and other generic "qualities" ....why would anybody bother reading them?

At least give us a detailed description of the job and potential perks (like travel, flexible hours, 20 days leave etc) if you are not going to list the salary.

Give us something.

 

[whatwhat]

Sure we all are looking for more money, I'm not going to leave my job for less than what I'm currently earning. The point of a new job though is to grow and explore new opportunities, to me if you are asking for the salary upfront it looks like you are there just to get an increase on your current job.
That is the companies worst nightmare, they spend all this time on looking at the candidates then they take the offer back to their old job and ask for an increase.

So cool, if you are not interested because there is no firm offer in the advert then great. Perhaps it's better you don't apply.

You are not getting a salary upfront, you are only getting a range. You cannot take that and run back to your employer for an increase as there is no offer.

If you get a job offer and then use it for an increase, well, that happens regardless whether the salary range was posted upfront and that depends on the candidate.

As for wasting company time, it is also going to waste the company time and mine when they offer me a salary that is a half of what I'm currently earning. I'd rather save them the embarrassment as I walk out the door laughing.

 

[Sodan]

Sure we all are looking for more money, I'm not going to leave my job for less than what I'm currently earning. The point of a new job though is to grow and explore new opportunities, to me if you are asking for the salary upfront it looks like you are there just to get an increase on your current job.
That is the companies worst nightmare, they spend all this time on looking at the candidates then they take the offer back to their old job and ask for an increase.

So cool, if you are not interested because there is no firm offer in the advert then great. Perhaps it's better you don't apply.

It seems you either missed my question (a second time), or you don't have a logical response. Which is it?

 

[Nerfherder]

It seems you either missed my question (a second time), or you don't have a logical response. Which is it?

I gave a response, but it confused you.


It's really simple. You have one guy doing a job at some point you want that guy to do something else because he is over qualified to be doing the job you tasked him with. So you hire a more junior person to do the job. You can't pay that person the same as the senior person because that would defeat the object of moving the senior person.

This is pretty basic business economics, get the expert in to design and develop the solution, then get the junior to take over and maintain the system.

You can advertise the post at 10k pm and then when no one gets back to you, you can can advertise again at 20k until you get some applicants or you can just not put a salary and see what people at that skill level are asking for.

Either way, it does help exclude people who are not serious

 

[whatwhat]

I gave a response, but it confused you.


It's really simple. You have one guy doing a job at some point you want that guy to do something else because he is over qualified to be doing the job you tasked him with. So you hire a more junior person to do the job. You can't pay that person the same as the senior person because that would defeat the object of moving the senior person.

This is pretty basic business economics, get the expert in to design and develop the solution, then get the junior to take over and maintain the system.

You can advertise the post at 10k pm and then when no one gets back to you, you can can advertise again at 20k until you get some applicants or you can just not put a salary and see what people at that skill level are asking for.

Either way, it does help exclude people who are not serious

You make a lot of bad assumptions about business, and it seems you have never really worked in the real world yet. So you are either a student or still at school thinking the world is perfect out there.

Either way, I'm not going to pay much attention to your posts in this regard anymore as they are mostly invalid.

 

[Nerfherder]

You make a lot of bad assumptions about business, and it seems you have never really worked in the real world yet. So you are either a student or still at school thinking the world is perfect out there.

Either way, I'm not going to pay much attention to your posts in this regard anymore as they are mostly invalid.

I'm 34, been working in business for almost 16 years.

I have worked in corporate, small business and Retail. I also studied some HR stuff in my degree

 

[skimread]

How about a compromise. They have to give a salary range based on experience. E.g. 20-40K based on experience. Then you will know at least that if you go with 10 year exp they won't offer 10K per month

 

[Sodan]

I gave a response, but it confused you.


It's really simple. You have one guy doing a job at some point you want that guy to do something else because he is over qualified to be doing the job you tasked him with. So you hire a more junior person to do the job. You can't pay that person the same as the senior person because that would defeat the object of moving the senior person.

This is pretty basic business economics, get the expert in to design and develop the solution, then get the junior to take over and maintain the system.

You can advertise the post at 10k pm and then when no one gets back to you, you can can advertise again at 20k until you get some applicants or you can just not put a salary and see what people at that skill level are asking for.

Either way, it does help exclude people who are not serious

This post does explain your thoughts in a way I can better understand. Thank you for that.

Unfortunately, though, I do not agree that the above is a realistic situation.

1. If a company is advertising a position requiring a certain skill set for 10k pm and getting no applicants, then that company is so out of touch with reality it's amazing they're still in business.

2. If they have a "senior" guy employed and they want to employ a more junior guy, they already have a ballpark figure of what is "too much" to pay by looking at the senior guy's salary. This, together with a bit of industry knowledge (they can look around on various job sites to see what others are paying for similar junior positions if the company is genuinely that naive) should be more than enough information form a realistic salary range.

But for a company to claim that it has absolutely no idea whatsoever what they're willing to pay for a certain position is simply unbelievable. How that company is in business without a budget is beyond mysterious, straight into the realm of impossible. And if such a company does exist, any employee would be taking a major risk working there since the company, thanks to not working with a budget, may one day suddenly realise they don't have the funds to pay the employee's salary!

 

[Stefanmuller]

What pisses me off even more is companies who advertise a salary of lets say R35k ctc, and then after the second interview tells you you have the job and that they only require your current job payslip. Then they see your current salary of R20k and offer you R25k. So I very much disagree with people saying salary is not that important, a crap salary will follow you to your next job.

 

[cguy]

This is how you do it: http://qt-search.com/jobs/new-high-frequency-quantitative-trading-firm-seeks-world-class-talent-to-join-unique-operation-2/

Crazy range, very few people can expect near the upper end, but at least it lets you know what's on the table.

 

[Chevron]

You can advertise the post at 10k pm and then when no one gets back to you, you can can advertise again at 20k until you get some applicants or you can just not put a salary and see what people at that skill level are asking for.

Either way, it does help exclude people who are not serious

Actually you have it the wrong way around. Not posting a range shows YOU aren't serious.

Makes the posts useless. I need to know a range and consider if that range is worth the trouble and fake illnesses to attend interviews

This. Posts without a salary range get ignored.

 

[Johnatan56]

How about a compromise. They have to give a salary range based on experience. E.g. 20-40K based on experience. Then you will know at least that if you go with 10 year exp they won't offer 10K per month

That is what was asked to begin with, not a concrete value.

 

[kianm]

Poor quality posts like these
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/699673-Business-Analyst-(R25k-R20k)?p=15211995#post15211995

R25k -R20k
R25k - R30k
Which is which??
:wtf:

You can tell maybe they want to pay <20k , but then its better because people will have some kind of idea, unlike no salary range at all

 

[riverdusty]

At the very least I'd like a minimum so I can gauge if its worth my time.

I've been through interviews, second interviews been told I can have the job and my salary would be... less than what I'm earning.

Also, "Market Related" is meaningless unless there is somewhere where you can look up actual values. Also, is there a standard for "Market Related" salaries? Who decides what "Market Related" salaries are? I could look at the recent MyBB article about salaries and decide that's a good "Market Related" Salary for my skill/position, but get to the interview to find they have their own internal system which shows it to be much lower (Or hopefully higher).

If it doesn't have a citation, range or minimum indication of what I can expect to be paid, I'm not even going to entertain it.

(I've also found that 99% of adverts without any salary indication are posted by recruitment agencies).

 

[dell25]

http://www.payscale.com

 

[ginggs]

This:

Lets try and conduct a different more constructive approach to the lack of salary band posting. The recruiters don't seem to be responding to the sarcasm correctly.

So , lets post a realistic band for them. Most IT pros will know what a realistic band is , and this forum is filled with them. The recruiters can then get an idea of the right amount is for the right candidate , and it will become more expected that the guidelines of the forum users be followed. Most candidates will likely not be led to pursue too much administration with the recruiter if the salary guidelines given by users are not reflected more or less when contacting the recruiter

 

[CorrieDeBeer]

1. If a company is advertising a position requiring a certain skill set for 10k pm and getting no applicants, then that company is so out of touch with reality it's amazing they're still in business.

This is not entirely true. They know exactly what market related is. They seriously just want to see if they cannot get someone desperate to exploit first. That is the SA business way. If in doubt find someone desperate to exploit.

2. If they have a "senior" guy employed and they want to employ a more junior guy, they already have a ballpark figure of what is "too much" to pay by looking at the senior guy's salary. This, together with a bit of industry knowledge (they can look around on various job sites to see what others are paying for similar junior positions if the company is genuinely that naive) should be more than enough information form a realistic salary range.

They know exactly what they are willing to pay. They also know that it is unlikely to entice people to apply. That is why they prefer to give you the runaround.

But for a company to claim that it has absolutely no idea whatsoever what they're willing to pay for a certain position is simply unbelievable. How that company is in business without a budget is beyond mysterious, straight into the realm of impossible. And if such a company does exist, any employee would be taking a major risk working there since the company, thanks to not working with a budget, may one day suddenly realise they don't have the funds to pay the employee's salary!

Rest assured it is all BS

What pisses me off even more is companies who advertise a salary of lets say R35k ctc, and then after the second interview tells you you have the job and that they only require your current job payslip. Then they see your current salary of R20k and offer you R25k. So I very much disagree with people saying salary is not that important, a crap salary will follow you to your next job.

You should never be giving a new employer any indication of your previous salary anyway. How are they renegotiating like that? If you have already signed an employment contract then they cannot force you to accept a lesser salary. If you have not signed anything then you can simply walk away with no repercussions to you.

 

[N0logy]

that is so correct and sometimes companies are just looking for the most precise fit in terms of skills and attributes and will place a salary based on those and also look into the candidates salary requirements.

When the salary is stated on the Advert and it is somewhat higher than the market rate then you get all sorts of people applying even people who don't remotely meet the requirements.

 

[Johnatan56]

Many publicly funded enterprises have an obligation to the funder to report previous earnings of new employees. All USAID contracts require consultants and employees to declare previous earnings for the past 3 years. This has nothing to do with the company hiring - it's a requirement of USAID (in this example). It's all part of anti-corruption - a big issue with public funding.

Advertising a salary scale would be great if you could ignore current earnings. Also, why exclude higher earners if their skills would make you change your mind? Advertising a salary is great for middle to low income positions, not ideal for upper income. As you move up the chain, job satisfaction and working conditions become far more important factors.

Most enterprises are not publicly funded, therefore your argument is void.
The salary band is there for those who earn too low/high to know if the work is on their level, a company won't just randomly decide, "hey, we wanted a cleaner, but why don't we employ this guy who repairs vacuum cleaners".