Scottish Referendum on Independence

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 53.2%

  • No

    Votes: 52 46.8%
  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .
ghoti said:
I love this New World disOrder people are aiming for :D
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I am always in favour of decentralisation of power. Look at Switzerland, it has tons of cantons each govern like a small country. The world is far to complex for a one man one vote one government system.

Speaking of the transvaal, jan smuts at one stage argued that the Afrikaner should join the British Union like the Scots, Welsh and Irish did. He never thought what the implications on the flag was going to be!
 
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Nicodeamus said:
I am always in favour of decentralisation of power. Look at Switzerland, it has tons of cantons each govern like a small country. The world is far to complex for a one man one vote one government system.
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This is the solution to all of Africa's problems..... need to divide into single tribal countries....
 
Mortymoose said:
This is the solution to all of Africa's problems..... need to divide into single tribal countries....
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homelands? ! :D (I guess that answers Gothi's question on absurdity).

in 1994 Buthelezi argued for a federal system to South Africa and de Klerk and Mandela undermined his suggestions. It would have saved the 20000 lives lost.
 
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Nicodeamus said:
I am always in favour of decentralisation of power. Look at Switzerland, it has tons of cantons each govern like a small country. The world is far to complex for a one man one vote one government system.
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Yeah, it makes sense that if you break apart economic and government systems that stuff will become more efficient with the added levels of bureaucracy. Its like Oprah. You get your own government! You get your own government! You get your own government! Everyone gets their own governments!

Im still pondering what to call my own currency. Going to make my own rules as well. Like no air planes above my airspace unless they pay me rent. Of course, Ill move next to an airport before I do this to maximize profability.
 
Mortymoose said:
This is the solution to all of Africa's problems..... need to divide into single tribal countries....
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Wouldnt work at all. Cause the tribe without the oil will attack the tribe with oil. As much as I like your idea. Resources are not equally spaced out on this planet.
 
ghoti said:
Yeah, it makes sense that if you break apart economic and government systems that stuff will become more efficient with the added levels of bureaucracy. Its like Oprah. You get your own government! You get your own government! You get your own government! Everyone gets their own governments!
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That is what most companies do nowadays, managers are allowed to take far more decisions at lower levels than the initially did. It increases efficiency, because it is more relevant to the given market. The same logic can be applied to countries. Scottland can better spend its own finances then the UK can, therefore its social services (which I know you like) can be more relevantly tailored.

Im still pondering what to call my own currency. Going to make my own rules as well. Like no air planes above my airspace unless they pay me rent. Of course, Ill move next to an airport before I do this to maximize profability.
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You're welcome to do that, but the question is whether or not you will be recognized.
 
ghoti said:
So only people who are countries now can get the freedom some Scots want? Everyone else is not allowed? :confused: :D Even if your country was brutally conquered and absorbed into another country?
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Not at all. I'm just saying that Scotland is a country and you are comparing it with places that are not. Whether they were countries once upon a time is not the point here. Perhaps it's more like Finland being run from Moscow.
 
ghoti said:
Wouldnt work at all. Cause the tribe without the oil will attack the tribe with oil. As much as I like your idea. Resources are not equally spaced out on this planet.
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Switzerland has hardly any natural resources, yet it manages to be successful.
 
Nicodeamus said:
You're welcome to do that, but the question is whether or not you will be recognized.
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Ill get my neighbour in on this and his nation can recognize my nation and visa versa. Im also pretty sure if I recognize Donesk, they`ll recognize me. And so on.
 
Nicodeamus said:
Switzerland has hardly any natural resources, yet it manages to be successful.
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They have many awesome socialized services so there is little inequality. If there was more inequality it wouldnt be the same.

The African tribes we speak of.. less so.
 
The_Assimilator said:
Yeah, all that Nazi money certainly helps.
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Low taxation and a save heaven for bankers helps, the nazi money is no good when it is kept in vaults. Someone has to spend it and be productive. Switzerland buys stuff, produces products and is more productive and prosperous because of that.

Mauritius (the African country without resources) has two main ethnic groups and yet it is successful. It follows a similar pattern to that of Swizerland. Hongkong is another example (a harbour does help a bit).
 
Nicodeamus said:
Low taxation and a save heaven for bankers helps, the nazi money is no good when it is kept in vaults. Someone has to spend it and be productive. Switzerland buys stuff, produces products and is more productive and prosperous because of that.

Mauritius (the African country without resources) has two main ethnic groups and yet it is successful. It follows a similar pattern to that of Swizerland. Hongkong is another example (a harbour does help a bit).
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You keep ignoring the inequality issue :) Its probably the single biggest driver in social unrest.

If you take Mauritius. Two groups of people. Now give one of those groups access to lots of natural resources and the other access to none. Do you think it would still be a country in harmony? Especially if its those separate tribal states you are so keen on.
 
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ghoti said:
You keep ignoring the inequality issue :) Its probably the single biggest driver in social unrest.
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All the countries that I pointed out have a low gini coeficient. You usually find it when there are high levels of property rights and little government intervention (i.e. Sweden, Switzerland, Catalonia, Hongkong) etc.

Some of these countries are mixed monarchies and in the case of Hongkong they do not even have political freedom. Israel is an example where a country is prosperous with little free trade rules and a high social spending (but nanny staters do not want to use it as an example for a prosperous country for other reasons).

In any case, the government run by humans comment reminded me of a world ran by robots!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHgm02Ub_Ks
 
Nicodeamus said:
All the countries that I pointed out have a low gini coeficient. You usually find it when there are high levels of property rights and little government intervention (i.e. Sweden, Switzerland, Catalonia, Hongkong) etc.
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Most of those countries have strong social programs to deal with the inequality. Its not the property rights (though these are important) that bring down inequality. Also, those countries have strong, very involved governments. Well, Sweden and Switzerland do. Sweden is probably one of the most socialist countries I know. Switzerland has amazing government development as well as strong regulation in many areas. As I pointed out in the previous discussion where you brought up those countries. Both those countries have and will socialize a resource if its in the countries interest. So they have property right limits like everyone else.

PS, you are still ignoring the inequality issue :D Saying "property rights" and "freedom" 10 times doesnt change anything :D
 
Hong Kong is one of those that provides a welfare state. They also take land ownership out of the equation. Not things the libertarian economists normally mention.

Spizz said:
Who needs resources when like Scotland, you have it's people...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discoveries
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Scotland is currently dependent on oil and gas for a fair percentage of their revenue. They also have trouble attracting people.

Nicodeamus said:
All the countries that I pointed out have a low gini coeficient. You usually find it when there are high levels of property rights and little government intervention (i.e. Sweden, Switzerland, Catalonia, Hongkong) etc.

Some of these countries are mixed monarchies and in the case of Hongkong they do not even have political freedom. Israel is an example where a country is prosperous with little free trade rules and a high social spending (but nanny staters do not want to use it as an example for a prosperous country for other reasons).
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Both Sweden and Switzerland have significant intervention in the personal lives of their citizens.
 
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