Sign a warning letter?


From my reading since this, things like the letter need to be specif on (for example) the meeting unprepared for. Date, time, place and content. Certain things need to be included which aren't. She cannot force a signature and one needs a give the employee a chance to present their own case.

If you want to put a * Dolby also swore at me! at the bottom, do it in my presence. I noticed it when I received the soft copy.

Things like that
 
From my reading since this, things like the letter need to be specif on (for example) the meeting unprepared for. Date, time, place and content. Certain things need to be included which aren't. She cannot force a signature and one needs a give the employee a chance to present their own case.

If you want to put a * Dolby also swore at me! at the bottom, do it in my presence. I noticed it when I received the soft copy.

Things like that

Might still be worth you speaking to legal person who can advise you on how to put it all down nice and formally so you leave them no room to wiggle.

If the manager has HR on her side (and they usually are), they'll still try to railroad you.

Sickening stuff though.

Good luck mate.
 
Out of interest - how so?

Very curious as to how it can be twisted to suit her.

EDIT : I have numerous emails printed to back me up, that I obviously cannot put on MyBB. You say you sent a mail for a meeting? Prove it - if it's true, shouldn't take more than a few seconds and a click of the forward button ...

Yeah it's just a feeling, not saying that's how it is. From your tone I pick up that you don't really sound concerned by these letters, even swearing in disdain whilst signing another one. I'd wouldn't take something like that lightly. BUT: This is just what I pick up, and is probably not accurate. :)
 
Out of interest - how so?

Very curious as to how it can be twisted to suit her.

EDIT : I have numerous emails printed to back me up, that I obviously cannot put on MyBB. You say you sent a mail for a meeting? Prove it - if it's true, shouldn't take more than a few seconds and a click of the forward button ...

You need to put all your counter evidence (per allegation) down in a calm, non-emotive way.

eg. the way you phrased the bolded bit above is emotional - you need to be factual and reduce everything to bullet points if you can

eg

Charge / Allegation: Did not attend meeting

Refutation:
a. Meeting invite was not received by Mr Dolby (refer Appendix 1a: Screenshots of Mr Dolby's Outlook Calendar for period under discussion
b. There is no record of meeting invite being sent (Refer Appendix 1b: Outlook send/receive logs taken from Mr Dolby's machine

etc, etc.
 
From your tone I pick up that you don't really sound concerned by these letters, even swearing in disdain whilst signing another one.

I was concerned and furious at the start. Blatant constructive dismissal - but after chatting to a few people, they said similar things : you will leave. Only at this point when you approached CCMA/labour laywer, is the law more on your side than the the employer. Only at this stage can one present everything fairly.

Up to that point, you don't have too much of a say of what happens - BUT you need to remain calm, document every error / warning , print all the mails etc. This I have done, but have committed to leaving here and know there isn't too much I can do.

EDIT : Regarding the swearing, it was something like this :

Dolby : 'I won't sign this now'
GM : 'You have to. It's acknowledgement and says that it was explained. You can appeal later'
Dolby ' I'm pretty sure I'm within my rights to not sign'
GM 'Sign it. Appeal later'
Dolby : 'Where is this email you refer to?'
GM 'This one ... here (shows print out)
Dolby : 'That refers to another email - where is the other email?'
GM 'I'll send after the meeting. Sign the letter and appeal later!'
Dolby 'I'm not signing'

That went on for a while. Then :

Dolby : 'ok - just give it to me' (said fsck it, under my breathe referring to the situation)
 
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You need to put all your counter evidence (per allegation) down in a calm, non-emotive way

I have.

Got everything printed, but as I say she's twisted or cohersed this witness. But, I'm happy to go the full way, box with her and see the outcome. I'm not wrong. I'm not being pushed over.
 
I have.

Got everything printed, but as I say she's twisted or cohersed this witness. But, I'm happy to go the full way, box with her and see the outcome. I'm not wrong. I'm not being pushed over.

A good outcome here would be to line another job up, and then ask them to give you a golden handshake.
 
I have.

Got everything printed, but as I say she's twisted or cohersed this witness. But, I'm happy to go the full way, box with her and see the outcome. I'm not wrong. I'm not being pushed over.

Wishing you all the best.

PS: From experience, the thicker your 'file' and the more comprehensive your defense, the better (I know it sounds obvious :o )
 
Thanks guys.

Another update (apologies for the long thread - but maybe it can assist someone)

HR phones and says as I'm appealing the warnings, process is going to get someone from SEESA to be a 'neutral' person and hear both sides to see the next step.

Someone tells me they're going to make me an offer to just leave, based on their experience, as I've become a nuisance. Guess they thought I'd just quiver and fall over?

Anyhow, when I asked if I can have a representative, they said nope. I will however get this in writing

Googling http://www.seesa.co.za confirms this :


We currently protect and promote the interests of over 35 000 South African business owners and employers.*SEESA*has an in-house team of over 250 legal advisors
 
I'll request it on Tuesday.

I really do not think that they thought a junior would put up much of a fight.
 
We do. I'll check online Tuesday.

Never been the type of employee that needs it, so never paid much attention either

Heard of SEESA?
 
Doesn't sound like a hearing. If it's a hearing the chairman has to ask if you want representation. Otherwise the whole thing will get thrown out at the CCMA
 
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