Telkom ADSL pricing structure slated

I agree that the R130 cost structure is not sustainable...to the CEO's bonus!

I would love to see a breakdown of that R300 cost structure! I'm sure in the end the physical copper will only be 10% of the cost, the rest will go to the fat cats.
 
Is South Africa not aiming to be a first world nation? One of the excuses I have heard many times for high telecoms charges is that SA is a developing nation/third world nation... ok granted we got some way to go before we are able to compare ourselves to the likes of Europe/UK/USA... but how do you become a first world nation... IMHO... by emulating first world nations, implementing first world policies, educating the masses... knowledge is power... give as many people as possible access to the internet, empower them... but no... in SA the internet is only for those who are already empowered, already educated, and those that can afford it... a minority... ultimately until government sees the internet as a means of uplifting/empowering people and drives down related costs, corporates will continue to apply profit driven business models, that only cater for the educated and empowered minority in SA, they will continue giving only small cost reductions to try and mute public negativity, this is indeed a sad state of affairs! Just take a lool at India, a 3rd world nation, look at the internet penetration... 51 million users in 2008, and they have a booming IT industry... why because there gov has taken measures to empower their people... http://www.indianembassy.org/indiainfo/india_it.htm

Come on SA... help your people help themselves!
 
I don't use telkom but there is a telkom line in my house so I must be costing R300 per month - not crediable.
 
Stucke is continuing with a long standing ICASA trend to defend Telkom in relation to ADSL. The weak ADSL regulation which is not being properly enforced was the first example and this unsubstantiated claim is the latest. Stucke or Telkom should provide figures to justify this claim that an analogue line costs R300 per month. This cannot be true since Telkom completed its tariff rebalancing in the early 2000s and the matter would have been addressed at that time.
 
Ok so i'll go with the R300 a month, why then am i paying R430 + R130 = R560 for a 4 MB/s line? That's almost DOUBLE the R300 price of the copper?
 
Where do you get this figure from? If I dropped 3 grand on my work phone a month I would get fired. Lol. Go get a job at a big corporate and spend 3 to 5 grand a month on calls and watch how long you last...

In example, you have 100 employees and 8 ISDN lines (16 exchange connections) or perhaps a PRI with 30 exchange connections, how much do you think is spent per link?

We're not concerned with how many people are on the PABX, only how many physical lines at going to Telkom.

D
 
Wonder if the poster actually worked at a big company before?

Or maybe he just thought that figure of 5k to be per person?

R5k is per exchange connection per month running at around 12 Erlang for an average office size of 50 people. on 8 ISDNS = R40k or R800k/month per person. pretty much the same as the previous post of 500 people with a 400k account
 
Think about your typical business trying to expense that infrastructure over 3 years versus and organisation that is expensing it over forever. A big number over 36 months is much, much bigger than a big number over an infinite number of months.

Any chance of talking about the copper in the ground that's wrapped with paper... try fixing that, you're pulling up the cable and replacing it wholesale and a good deal of Telkoms infrastructure looks like that.

D
 
I noticed that many guys came in throwing insult at Mr Stucke for pointing out that it may well cost Telkom in the region of R300 per month to deliver the infrastructure. Other proposed he was defending Telkom and the like:

At the debate Stucke was anything BUT defending Telkom (look at tomorrow’s article). He in fact proposed a different business model than what Telkom is currently uses, and said things can be done better/differently.

The figure may seem high- it also surprises me – but to now shoot the messenger is silly and short sighted. Stucke was not defending Telkom – merely commenting on the current charges, and the potential future charges in the event of LLU.

Just for the record: I think William Stucke is one of the best things which happened to ICASA in a long time.
 
Nice post djrwb. The problem is that the majority of posters don't have enough understanding of how business owners think and how capital allocation decisions are made and the pricing of these products based on these capital investments. Before I elaborate, just to be clear, I do think Telkom needs to reduce their ADSL access charges, this will come, because the spread and absolute levels of pricing between the different speed options are not optimal.

Your ADSL internet cost is made up of 3 basic costs:
1. Telkom copper voice line rental
2. ADSL port charge for ADSL infrastructure inside the exchanges
3. ISP charge for bandwidth usage

I want to concentrate on the first 2, since competition has driven the last one down dramatically recently and this is set to continue.

As regards to 1, many think because something is already paid for, in this case the physical copper line infrastructure, there is no costs anymore. This is the same as saying because your landlord has already paid for his house, that he is not allowed to charge you a market related rent anymore! Is this reasonable?

Further, there is of course ongoing maintenance costs and operating costs as well as overhead costs involved in maintaining a fixed copper line infrastructure and providing services over this infrastructure. I actually think the line charge is not expensive and if anyone thinks different, they are of course welcome to build their own network these days. The new legislation made this possible, but I dont see any big players rushing out to build their own copper line network! I certainly wont, because I dont think I will get a good return on my investment.
and then there is of course copper line theft of hundreds of million a year ...

Then lastly, the ADSL port charge. Now here I agree wholeheartedly that the costs are too high. The extra investment in infratructure for ADSL DSLAMS and other networking equipment, backups etc, was needed , but the charges are not economical with the costs in my opinion. These charges will come down I think, maybe very soon, because R400 for a 4mbps ADSL port is way too expensive.

One of the only posts in this thread that actually seems to know how Telkom's network works.....I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Very few people seem to realize that there is more than a dude on roller-skates who runs around with a cable to connect your call. Some things to take note of when paying the rental on your line.
I can easily see how R300 can be reached on line rental. Consider
The hourly rate of each employee maintaining the Network including those behind the scenes, in accounts, Data centers, Cable maintainer, Carrier system techs, Submarine Cable monitoring and so many more. A portion of rent goes there.
Battery back ups, computer systems, imported German and French Exchanges and other systems with constant upgrading and field testing and maintenance for every exchange in the country including under performing areas and remote areas.
Vehicles, fuel, test equipment, fiber redundancy and as recently witnessed SAT 3 redundancy (I still had internet while Seacom was down)

All this and Telkom still makes a profit? Yes, they still bill for calls, cell inter-connects, PABX rentals ATM networks, Cell back haul, Network Management (NNOC) etc etc etc)

Overseas companies can do it cheaper why?
They dont have to import parts, skills, etc and line distances are alot shorter due to the nature of the geography.
South Africa has one of the highest lightning incidences in the world - your rental pays for maintenance with that too
To supply a farmer with a telephone service could cost Telkom around R30 000 (Poles, batteries, towers solar panels, remote power...etc) But they will still only pay a flat fee for installation. (around R450 or sometimes a little more) Your rental carries those costs


To summerize, Telkom does not bill rand per item, but instead distributes its costs relatively across its paying customers. This is perhaps where the fault lies, but very few people can see past the cloud of the ADSL router.

And yes, I did work for Telkom 7 years ago and understand the network and billing system quite well:wtf:
 
Any chance of talking about the copper in the ground that's wrapped with paper... try fixing that, you're pulling up the cable and replacing it wholesale and a good deal of Telkoms infrastructure looks like that.
D
It was the accepted method of constructing cables in the past....even in Europe. They are pressurized cables an have air pressure alarms in the exchange. Now that PVC cables are the standard these old cables are getting replaced. There aren't so many left anymore....rental helps with that replacement

I wonder how historic infrastructure paid for by our taxes factor into those calculations.
There is constant upgrading of equipment, like your own PC, DSLAMs, exchanges, fibres etc get upgraded every few years without any direct cost to the client.....All done through the rentals

I don't use telkom but there is a telkom line in my house so I must be costing R300 per month - not crediable.
Your line is most likely disconnected outside your property anyway.....just because you have a wire in your house does not mean it goes all the way to the exchange.

How many landlines are there in SA? At an estimate of 5million, Telkom make a loss of R850million per month:wtf:

BS
You forgot that they get money from calls, ATM switching, TV broadcasts, Cell back-haul provisioning, DATA management, PABX provisioning.......to name a few. Hence a profit can be made, like any business.
 
QUOTE
Overseas companies can do it cheaper why?
They dont have to import parts, skills, etc and line distances are alot shorter due to the nature of the geography.
South Africa has one of the highest lightning incidences in the world - your rental pays for maintenance with that too
UNQUOTE

Of course many of them import parts, depending on the brands they use - of course it's a matter of making the right choices, and proper planning. As for skills, well they should be training their local staff - South Africans are no less capable than other nationalities, in fact we have some amazing talent here!
...and those countries have other major challenges from nature eg. snow, storms, earthquakes, flooding, excessively high rainfall, etc, etc...
They may have smaller countries, but their cities are larger and older.
Bad management & profiteering!
 
Rubbish, the fact is that Telkom is still in total control of the 'last mile', the copper line from the exchange(Telkom) to your premises... if Neotel were to offer proper broadband they would need access to this 'last mile' copper line... Telkom does not allow anyone access to this 'last mile'... that's why Neotel have been forced to use a wireless network to bridge that 'last mile' and overcome Telkom's block... as many of us, that use wireless broadband, know, wireless is not nearly as stable as a decent fixed line, my wireless 3G connection constantly suffers from packet loss, high latency and connection dropping(and I've got excellent signal)... while a fixed line offers very low latency and stability(usually)... so ADSL connectivity is controlled 100% by Telkom, and Neotel has been forced to use quasi cellphone network technology to offer a competing product... so in essence Neotel cannot compete with Telkom, because they aren't the 2nd fixed line operator, like they were meant to be!

Mr B

What is stopping Neotel to put in their own last-mile? Nothing except cost. They do not think they can do it cheaper than they will be able to get it with LLU.
 
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