Telkom slams price critics

Ekhaatvensters said:
A little bit of bias there hey? :p

Well you are goign against RPM right htere in the begining.. that is what he did (factoringin installation) to get his figures on ADSL reductions. I also think the installation fees shouldnt be regarded in his calculations.
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I missed where RPM factored installation costs into his calculations - has anyone got a link to this?
 
mikef said:
I missed where RPM factored installation costs into his calculations - has anyone got a link to this?
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From what I understand he didn't factor in installation costs at all.

He took line rental added ISP costs and then added normal telephone line rental. Line rental decreased in price but normal telephone line rental increased. At the end of the day with all costs included he came up with the actual percentages of increase.

That's how I understood it anyway. :confused:
 
Toxin said:
From what I understand he didn't factor in installation costs at all.

He took line rental added ISP costs and then added normal telephone line rental. Line rental decreased in price but normal telephone line rental increased. At the end of the day with all costs included he came up with the actual percentages of increase.

That's how I understood it anyway. :confused:
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My understanding as well - allthough AFAIK he also used the telkominternet tarifs for 2Gig and 3Gig datacaps as well.
 
Here we go. Looking at the table he made at the bottom of the page....... nope don't see anything about installation fees.

PS: Also don't see any mention of it in the article either.
PPS: On closer inspection he should maybe change the wording on the table to Total Average Saving instead of Total Saving. Still no mention of installation fees. :)
 
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ic said:
Yes, but since these were constant in rpm's equation, you still end up with an average ADSL price decrease of 12% - even when completely ignoring the ADSL ISP Account charges. The reason that rpm's calculations are better including the ADSL ISP Account charges, is that rpm shows the usual total cost that someone considering getting ADSL would have to pay - even after 2006-08-01, and it is still waaay too high.
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Sorry to disagree - however you must include the datacosts to get the 12% decrease as it is a pecentage decrease. As it is impossible to have ADSL without these costs (or similar) I believe it must be included.
 
The ISP costs remain constant in the equation so there's no reason to include them.
 
I know, but we're talking about working out the % decrease, prices that remain constant don't affect it.
 
ic said:
While I do agree with your reasoning, one can still disregard the constants in the equation, and still reach an answer of a 12% average ADSL price decrease, as opposed to the 24% that Telkodemonopolies has claimed in its double page spread propaganda adverts. All I'm saying is that rpm did the correct thing by including all the costs [as you've also pointed out], but there is a simpler formula that leads to the same conclusion - although it doesn't take into account the ADSL ISP Account costs, whereas rpm's calculations do & still come up with 12% :).
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If you do not take ISP costs into account (i.e. only line rental and ADSL rental) then allthough the absolute decrease is exactly the same the percentage would change as your total that you are comparing to is lower (Using the same basis as RPM without ISP datacosts this decrease as a percentage would then be an average of 17%:)
 
ic said:
:confused:

Please post the formula that you used to arrive at a 17% delta...
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RPM calc:
Prod Old cost New cost Decrease %
DSL192* 561.28 543.92 17.36 3%
DSL384 700.28 593.92 106.36 15%
DSL512 818.28 710.92 107.36 13%
DSL1024 1021.28 864.92 156.36 15%
Average = 12%

Without datacosts:
DSL192* 362.28 344.92 17.36 5%
DSL384 451.28 344.92 106.36 24%
DSL512 569.28 461.92 107.36 19%
DSL1024 772.28 615.92 156.36 20%
Average = 17%
 
Of course you have to take in mind the ISP charge, even if it is constant.

For example:
(* ignoring the line rental for the moment)

[Method A]
100 (Access) + 50 (ISP) = 150 (Old price)
80(Access) + 50 (ISP) = 130 (New price)
-> Decrease: ((150-130)/150)*100 = 13.33%

[Method B]
100 (Access) = 100 (Old price)
80(Access) = 80 (New price)
-> Decrease: ((100-80)/100)*100 = 20%

That is why there is a difference in percentage between RPM and Telscum.

Obviously RPM's calculations also take in mind the line rental increases, as you have no ADSL internet without it.

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Edit: Exactly MikeF!!!

RPM Method - 3 values taken into account. Total divider is greater thus decrease is less. - Correct
Telkom Method - 1 value taken into account. Total divider is less thus decrease is more. - Bulsh**

But Telkom's "chinese maths" is incorrect because with only the ADSL access portion you don't have any internet.
 
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Chinese Maths

At least in China they don't pay heavy rates like we do !
 
The part that peeves me the most is where Telkom states that you can't compare SA telecoms charges to the US. Well obviously you can't BUT if you compare our prices to Australia , NZ, even South American countries and best of all Senegal and Kenya (Which are tiny economies) to SA prices SA is by far the most expensive...
 
A quick note on including "constant" costs in the equations - I am glad RPM did - because WHEN* Telkom increases these costs (like per GB prices), the percantage "decrease" will drop lower.

(* you think they won't? )
 
this was a case of "Chinese maths"

?

Is he saying it is extremely accurate and meticulous?

I usually have no time for oversensitive communities, but it be hilarious if the Chinese community made a fuss over this as a racial slur.

Telkom, now there's a hypersensitive corporation. The worst offenders are so often the ones that turn out to be the most sensitive to criticism and satire.

Hayward said the different offerings needed to be viewed separately given that most Telkom customers use their line primarily for voice calls. The decision to install an ADSL line was a separate consideration, and only 3% of its customers had ADSL, Hayward said

I don't need my voice line, so can I cancel that portion? It is separate, apparently. What is their excuse for charging two line rentals? I mean the official reason, not that they're lying, thieving corporate criminals.

"We have provided the market with real options,"

You get to choose between being kicked in the face or the balls.

My mom currently pays R380 for a 22Mb uncapped connection in the UK. All inclusive. She also pays next to nothing for general telephone use.

the DSL 192 package, where Telkom had doubled the speed available to these customers, with a small price decrease

Which is totally pointless. More speed is of no value when bandwidth is too expensive to buy.

Economies of scale - if Telkom dropped the price to a reasonable level and re-hired staff they dumped to line their pockets every single dial-up customer could be switched over to ADSL in a relatively short time.
 
telkomsuig said:
The part that peeves me the most is where Telkom states that you can't compare SA telecoms charges to the US. Well obviously you can't BUT if you compare our prices to Australia , NZ, even South American countries and best of all Senegal and Kenya (Which are tiny economies) to SA prices SA is by far the most expensive...
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On Telkom's map they're all part of the US.

OK, so Australia has become the latest US state...
 
Ekhaatvensters said:
The slight decrease is infact pretty big, especially when compared to the small increase on line rental. Unless you are on 192kb, but even then it just outweighs the increase. But line speed is nice..
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No it isn't. Extra speed is useless without bandwidth. If they're doubling the speed then they should halve the price of bandwidth.

The decrease is basically R17 per month, about a 4.7% decrease for the typical home user of ADSL.
 
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