Tenants are backfeeding using generators...

[konfab]

What happens if they’re backfeeding and the eskom main power returns as well? Since they didn’t isolate that feed?

The issue is phase synchronisation. Remember, your electricity comes in an AC signal, which is a sine wave. If you want generators to work together, they have to be in phase elsewise they will cause destructive interference.



If your generator is 180 degrees out of phase, your generator will effectively be fighting Eskom with every wave of power. Which will probably not make it last long on the earth and it will release it's blue smoke soul and shuffle off its mortal coils. Whilst it is doing this, it will probably act like a giant load on the system thus constraining the utility even more.

Without a phase-locked loop (a device that detects and aligns the phase of an AC signal source), you have no way to synchronise your generator with the grid.

This is why Eskom's greatest fear is a cascade failure. Every power station in the country has sensors on it that will disconnect it from the grid if there is too much load for the station to handle. (The frequency of the system starts deviating from 50Hz) When one large power station trips, it will cause a cascade failure as other stations will get more load and trip as well. Thus the entire grid will go down.

In order to get the grid back up, they have to pick a station, which usually would be Koeberg because it is the most reliable station in the country, and use it as the "source of truth" for the phase. They would then have to bring up every power station in the country gradually as they lock onto the signal sent by Koeberg through the transmission lines. Once they do that, they would be able to start connecting residential customers to the grid again.

So no, please don't connect your generator to the grid.


Edit: fixed the stupid 50Hz

 

[Geoff.D]

THis is my portable which I dust off if the batteries struggle to charge in my little setup.

View attachment 1386910

No I didnt pay that, got one one on auction , sealed and new for 2k.

1. Master on off / switch, kills motor instantly and won't start without ( recoil start )
2. Circuit breaker for electrical output from genie via the three options : socket, caravan and lead
3. Caravan socket for secure protected connection to a feed point
4. Surrounding cage, warnings indicate that this could live so don't hold on to or touch to create a circuit once running, kill the master first.

As per the manual

1.15 says do not connect to the mains grid.

Surprised there is no mention of earthing or grounding?.

 

[wingnut771]

Do you mean sticking an earth rod into a wheelbarrow or a bucket full of earth is not good enough?

Who would have thought. ?s go those that needit pointed out to them.

No man, like this:

 

[Geoff.D]

deviating from 60Hz)

Sure. That is the technical stuff. You might want to check these things before simply cutting and pasting what you find on the Internet. We are 50Hz in SA.

 

[wingnut771]

This is why Eskom's greatest fear is a cascade failure. Every power station in the country has sensors on it that will disconnect it from the grid if there is too much load for the station to handle. (The frequency of the system starts deviating from 60Hz) When one large power station trips, it will cause a cascade failure as other stations will get more load and trip as well. Thus the entire grid will go down.

In order to get the grid back up, they have to pick a station, which usually would be Koeberg because it is the most reliable station in the country, and use it as the "source of truth" for the phase. They would then have to bring up every power station in the country gradually as they lock onto the signal sent by Koeberg through the transmission lines. Once they do that, they would be able to start connecting residential customers to the grid again.

So no, please don't connect your generator to the grid.

This is exactly what is causing all the tripped units we are currently experiencing imho.

 

[Geoff.D]

No man, like this:
View attachment 1386922

That is the pic I was looking for!

 

[Geoff.D]

This is exactly what is causing all the tripped units we are currently experiencing imho.

Interesting thought that! yet we have all the usual noise makers telling us how stable our grid frequency is in SA.

 

[AstroTurf]

This is exactly what is causing all the tripped units we are currently experiencing imho.

I think it's a mix of all those inverter batteries charging and all those machines that are not designed to be turned off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on letting out the magic smoke.

 

[Kosmik]

1.15 says do not connect to the mains grid.

Surprised there is no mention of earthing or grounding?.

There is more but nothing really explicit. 2.6 is the only spot.

2. ELECTRICAL SAFETY INFORMATION:​

2.1. Electrical equipment including cable, cords and
plug connection must not be defective. Please check
before using.
2.2. Do not plug the generator directly into a wall
socket-outlet.
2.3. The generator should not be connected to other
sources such as the power company supply mains. In
special cases where stand-by connection to existing
electrical systems or integration therewith is intended,
note that it is a legal requirement that such connections
or integration may only be performed by a qualified
technician.
2.4. Protection against electrical shock depends on
circuit-breakers that are specially matched to the
generator. If a circuit breaker requires replacement, it
shall be replaced by a circuit breaker that has identical
ratings and performance characteristics.
2.5. Due to high mechanical stresses only tough, flex-
ible cable should be used.
2.6. If the generator is of CLASS II construction then
the generator does not have to be eathed.
2.7. Cord Extension Sets:
2.7.1. A 1mm
flexible cable can draw a maximum of
2
10A provided that the cable is no longer than 25m.
2.7.2. A 1.5mm
flexible cable can draw a maximum of
2
10a provided that the cable is no longer than 35m
2.7.3. A 1.5mm
flexible cable can draw a maximum of
2
16a provided that the cable is no longer than 20m
2.7.4. A 2.5mm
flexible cable can draw a maximum of
2
10a provided the cable is no longer than 65m
2.7.5. A 2.5mm
flexible cable can draw a maximum of
2
16a provided that the cable is no longer than 45m
2.7.6. A 4mm
flexible cable can draw a maximum of
2
10a provided that the cable is no longer than 100m
2.7.7. A 4mm
flexible cable can draw a maximum of
2
16a provided that the cable is no longer than 65m
2.8. DROP IN ELECTRIC EXTENSION CORDS:
When a long electric extension cord is used to connect
an appliance or tool to the generator, a certain amount
of voltage drop or loss occurs in the extension cord
which reduces the effective voltage available for the
appliance or tool

 

[AstroTurf]

Or just get this on the DB, it will be much easy to seamlessly connect the inverter when they finally see the error of their ways.

Din Changeover Switch 2P 63ADefault Title

Used to switch between municipal power and another source. Din Rail Changeover Switch2 Pole63 Amps

britelighting.co.za

That is one sexy changeover switch.

 

[Geoff.D]

I think it's a mix of all those inverter batteries charging and all those machines that are not designed to be turned off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off and on letting out the magic smoke.

My ex-brother-in-law brought me a weedeater to fix the other day. I spent a day trying to clean and fix it, only for it to pass the smoke test when I connected it up. He says it died when LS kicked in. ----

 

[RedViking]

This is what happens when you pay for something supplied by a single entity and get no service. People are desperate and gat vol.

Similar to mob justice being a result of incompetence and absolutely useless police services.

 

[konfab]

Sure. That is the technical stuff. You might want to check these things before simply cutting and pasting what you find on the Internet. We are 50Hz in SA.

Oof. That was a mistake.

You don't have to believe me, but I didn't cut and paste it. I was more focused on inserting a monty python reference.

 

[TheChamp]

This is what happens when you pay for something supplied by a single entity and get no service. People are desperate and gat vol.

Similar to mob justice bring a result of incompetent and absolutely useless police services.

Nah, in this case it is very easy to do the the right thing and connect the changeover switch, this is just the human nature of wanting to cut corners.

 

[konfab]

Nah, in this case it is very easy to do the the right thing and connect the changeover switch, this is just the human nature of wanting to cut corners.

A changeover switch is fine. But I don't think it is a good idea to use your house's wiring anyway. Just for the pure reason that there is usually a lot more stuff on the house circuit than your generator can handle.

 

[PsyWulf]

Or just get this on the DB, it will be much easy to seamlessly connect the inverter when they finally see the error of their ways.

Din Changeover Switch 2P 63ADefault Title

Used to switch between municipal power and another source. Din Rail Changeover Switch2 Pole63 Amps

britelighting.co.za

Personal preference:

 

[RedViking]

Nah, in this case it is very easy to do the the right thing and connect the changeover switch, this is just the human nature of wanting to cut corners.

Well if they tenants, the owner should make sure they install the necessary switches then as it is an investment in their property.

That or the tenants must just sit in the dark like the rest, or take desperate and dangerous measure.

If the owner does not want to do it... Oh well.

 

[wingnut771]

Interesting thought that! yet we have all the usual noise makers telling us how stable our grid frequency is in SA.

Mybb should have a grid hz meter on their website, that way we will know when to charge batteries and fuel generators.

 

[RedViking]

A changeover switch is fine. But I don't think it is a good idea to use your house's wiring anyway. Just for the pure reason that there is usually a lot more stuff on the house circuit than your generator can handle.

Well if they backfeeding it is much worse. Gennie will trip or cut out if they load is too much. So just need to guide the tenants on which switches to switch off as well to lessen the load.

 

[B-1]