The Brexit Thread

Ancalagon

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They did...

But what people are obviously missing, is that now more of the reality has been revealed a new referendum would probably be a good thing to see how the citizens feel with more accurate information rather than the lies being peddled from both sides.
I don't think the people properly understood what they were getting into when they voted in the referendum.
 

Pitbull

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There are plenty of remainers in the Tory party, and these are MP's from areas that voted remain - from what I can see the Tories are pretty much split on the issue.
Which is perfectly fine. They are more divided between hard/soft than Brexit/no-Brexit.

There will never be a second referendum. I just wished the remainers would accept that and start helping with developing a Brexit inclusive of everyone's input. A re-referendum goes against everything a referendum is. Makes zero sense.
 

theratman

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They did...

But what people are obviously missing, is that now more of the reality has been revealed a new referendum would probably be a good thing to see how the citizens feel with more accurate information rather than the lies being peddled from both sides.
While I disagree with them leaving the decision has been made. They're too far to back out now and if they do EU will have them bent over a barrel. Regardless of if the public was hoodwinked they should leave the EU as the vote dictates.
 

Pitbull

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The initial question of the referendum was far too simplistic though, an acceptance of that should inform a second referendum on what leave actually means, it's shouldn't just be a hard Brexit because that what certain people in government want.
This I can agree with to a degree. Allow the people to have a say in the type of Brexit they want. Brexit will happen according to the referendum. Maybe have on to determine hard/soft as an example.
 

Pitbull

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Didn't they have a referendum on whether to join the EU in the 1970's? So, the recent referendum makes that one null and void too.
You're comparing a Sheep to a Scambler here...

They voted to join the EU and they did. 40 years have lapsed. Now they had one to remain or leave. The referendum back in the 70s was honored. The Brexit referendum has not been honored. How can you compare the two? Having the generation which will have to deal with the issue now vote as opposed to those who had to deal with it in the 70s. Makes 100% sense.
 

Cray

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Quote from Sophie in ‘t Veld, a Dutch MEP

The real problem doesn’t lie there. The real problem lies within the UK, within the government, within the Tory party, between the parties, because there has not been any agreement over the relationship with the EU between any of them over the last two years.

That is the real problem, because if the UK had a single agreed line, backed by the majority of parties and the majority of MPs, then the whole situation would not be so unclear
 

Ancalagon

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While I disagree with them leaving the decision has been made. They're too far to back out now and if they do EU will have them bent over a barrel. Regardless of if the public was hoodwinked they should leave the EU as the vote dictates.
That makes no sense. Never go ahead and do the wrong thing just because of some sense of honour. Do the right thing, even if your honour is besmirched or if there are temporary negative consequences.

In this particular case, the only voters who will mind are those who voted Leave before and would vote Leave again. I doubt there would be that many of them - it seems that the sentiment has changed quite a bit. Those who voted Leave before but changed their minds to Remain will obviously not be upset.
 

Cray

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Which according to me is exactly what the voters voted for. Hard Brexit, get out and do their own thing. Soft Brexit will be accepting the vote but also pleasing the losers. Which is not what the voters voted for.
Got your finger on the pulse of the average Brit from 10 000kms away? How can you, a South African, profess to know what they voted for when many of them confess to not knowing that in the first place?
 

theratman

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That makes no sense. Never go ahead and do the wrong thing just because of some sense of honour. Do the right thing, even if your honour is besmirched or if there are temporary negative consequences.

In this particular case, the only voters who will mind are those who voted Leave before and would vote Leave again. I doubt there would be that many of them - it seems that the sentiment has changed quite a bit. Those who voted Leave before but changed their minds to Remain will obviously not be upset.
It's not honour, its their political system. If they revoted I think it would a remain majority, then the leavers would be upset and want a 3rd referendum? If the shoe was on the other foot and the remainers win I don't think they should have a second referendum either. Just my 2c on the matter.
 

Pitbull

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Got your finger on the pulse of the average Brit from 10 000kms away? How can you, a South African, profess to know what they voted for when many of them confess to not knowing that in the first place?
The whole campaign was aligned with hard Brexit. Those who lost are now trying to make it as soft as possible. Nothing to do with me knowing Brits. It's about the results of their referendum.
 

Pitbull

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That makes no sense. Never go ahead and do the wrong thing just because of some sense of honour. Do the right thing, even if your honour is besmirched or if there are temporary negative consequences.

In this particular case, the only voters who will mind are those who voted Leave before and would vote Leave again. I doubt there would be that many of them - it seems that the sentiment has changed quite a bit. Those who voted Leave before but changed their minds to Remain will obviously not be upset.
And you are sure of this how?

They have already won, they don't need to win a second time just to win? This whole second referendum started the day they remainers lost. It will never happen, they have clarified that numerous times already. Let it go :D
 

Pitbull

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While I disagree with them leaving the decision has been made. They're too far to back out now and if they do EU will have them bent over a barrel. Regardless of if the public was hoodwinked they should leave the EU as the vote dictates.
Like the loser on the school grounds. "Ok, best out of three?"

It's like asking Bolt to run the 200 meter final twice, just to make sure he won it the first time... WTF :D
 

theratman

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Like the loser on the school grounds. "Ok, best out of three?"

It's like asking Bolt to run the 200 meter final twice, just to make sure he won it the first time... WTF :D
That's the way I see it and people are welcome to call me naive etc. The only thing that might force one is if there was some gross misconduct etc taken by the leave campaign, yes they played dirty but nothing we don't see from usual elections / votes.
 

Cray

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Pitbull

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Cray

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So you focus on one person's dated views? Those views didn't align with the other campaign messages. Which is why Borris is saying NO to the current CU agreement. It's not science...
So the head of the leave campaign said things that where inconsistent with a hard Brexit, clearly sending a mixed message to voters but you contend that the hard brexit message was always clear and unequivocal.....:rolleyes:
 

Pitbull

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So the head of the leave campaign said things that where inconsistent with a hard Brexit, clearly sending a mixed message to voters but you contend that the hard brexit message was always clear and unequivocal.....:rolleyes:
You are ignoring everything I just said didn't you? Please highlight the campaign for Pro-Brexit for us. You will soon realize the problem Borris sat with, and the reason he's against the CU agreement now.
 

Dave

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So the head of the leave campaign said things that where inconsistent with a hard Brexit, clearly sending a mixed message to voters but you contend that the hard brexit message was always clear and unequivocal.....:rolleyes:
It isn’t just Johnson, quite a few in the Leave campaign said the same in the lead up to the referendum.

Including Hannan

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Farage
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Paterson

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Luke Johnson

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And even Banks

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