OMB
Mountain Man
Vusi Moaner has spun so much bullschit recently I don't think he even knows what the truth is any more
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The Gauteng E-tolling Thread
- Thread starter LazyLion
- Start date
- Status
Vusi Moaner has spun so much bullschit recently I don't think he even knows what the truth is any more
Musiclover08
Senior Member
R41bn debt but they not worried because only 16% is tolled. So then what was the whole problem with GPIF and user pays?
koeksGHT
Dealer
FTFY
Haha Kapsch prob convinced them that the spending of their pension money would repay itself once implemented..
Sorry ANC, you have been scammed again
and this time we are not paying it back for you. Go bankrupt, see if we care you have done nothing as it is so no loss to us
Last edited:
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Dear Petioner,
This is my last message for the year. I wish to provide information on the road ahead with regard to the e-toll matter.
1. The FF Plus will together with the Transvaal Agricultural Union of South Africa (TAU-SA) and the National Taxpayers Union (NTU) as the Tollgate Action Group (TAG) continue the court case to declare the E-Toll Act unconstitutional. We will now place the matter on the ordinary court roll for hearing next year. Our court case of 2 December 2013 was unfortunately not successful, as according to the court, we could not show urgency to have the matter heard before the e-toll system switched on. As a result our arguments on the merits were not heard. Although we were of firm belief that it was indeed urgent to stop the e-toll system before switch-on, the judge found it was not the case. She, amongst others, based her finding on the Constitutional Court case between government and OUTA that found that road users can claim their e-toll payments back by court order if a court should ever order the e-toll system to switch off.
2. We believe that by placing the matter on the ordinary court roll we will not as easily be prone to technical points that could be raised and will thus allow a hearing on the merits of the matter. The effect of a successful court application will be that the e-toll system will have to switch off and all payments made can be repaid. It is, however, also of importance to note that this court case deals with a significant constitutional principle. The FF Plus had in parliament maintained from the outset that the E-Toll Bill was incorrectly classified or tagged. It is of the utmost importance to classify a Bill correctly as the incorrect classification will exclude a substantial group of constituents from the legislative process, as transpired in this case. If the E-Toll Bill was classified correctly the provinces and its citizens would also have had an opportunity to participate by way of a public submission process, which did not take place. As a result we submitted a request for reclassification of the Bill to the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Transport, without success, later another one to the Speaker of Parliament also without success, and lastly one to the President, without success. As a result we are going to court on principle to ensure that the constitutional norms of democratic participation are applied consistently. We cannot allow the ANC to undermine the Constitution.
3. We, therefore, provide the following advice to road users that drive on the tolled roads:
3.1 In the event that you do not want to pay for the road use and is prosecuted as a result, TAG is willing to defend you on the basis of the unconstitutionality of the E-Toll Act. Kindly contact us at [email protected];
3.2 In the event that you do make payments to SANRAL, we will claim the money back on your behalf by way of a class action suit once the E-Toll Act has been declared unconstitutional.
4. In the meantime we also provide the following advice:
4.1 Remember that e-tags are not legally required. No one can force you to use an e-tag.
4.2 Any law enforcement official that stops you and asks you to show an e-tag acts in breach of the law. Take the official's name and report this to us at [email protected].
We will talk again in the new year. In the meantime drive safely and be patient towards other drivers.
I wish you and your loved ones a very blessed Christmas.
Blessings
Adv. Anton Alberts
FF+
This is my last message for the year. I wish to provide information on the road ahead with regard to the e-toll matter.
1. The FF Plus will together with the Transvaal Agricultural Union of South Africa (TAU-SA) and the National Taxpayers Union (NTU) as the Tollgate Action Group (TAG) continue the court case to declare the E-Toll Act unconstitutional. We will now place the matter on the ordinary court roll for hearing next year. Our court case of 2 December 2013 was unfortunately not successful, as according to the court, we could not show urgency to have the matter heard before the e-toll system switched on. As a result our arguments on the merits were not heard. Although we were of firm belief that it was indeed urgent to stop the e-toll system before switch-on, the judge found it was not the case. She, amongst others, based her finding on the Constitutional Court case between government and OUTA that found that road users can claim their e-toll payments back by court order if a court should ever order the e-toll system to switch off.
2. We believe that by placing the matter on the ordinary court roll we will not as easily be prone to technical points that could be raised and will thus allow a hearing on the merits of the matter. The effect of a successful court application will be that the e-toll system will have to switch off and all payments made can be repaid. It is, however, also of importance to note that this court case deals with a significant constitutional principle. The FF Plus had in parliament maintained from the outset that the E-Toll Bill was incorrectly classified or tagged. It is of the utmost importance to classify a Bill correctly as the incorrect classification will exclude a substantial group of constituents from the legislative process, as transpired in this case. If the E-Toll Bill was classified correctly the provinces and its citizens would also have had an opportunity to participate by way of a public submission process, which did not take place. As a result we submitted a request for reclassification of the Bill to the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Transport, without success, later another one to the Speaker of Parliament also without success, and lastly one to the President, without success. As a result we are going to court on principle to ensure that the constitutional norms of democratic participation are applied consistently. We cannot allow the ANC to undermine the Constitution.
3. We, therefore, provide the following advice to road users that drive on the tolled roads:
3.1 In the event that you do not want to pay for the road use and is prosecuted as a result, TAG is willing to defend you on the basis of the unconstitutionality of the E-Toll Act. Kindly contact us at [email protected];
3.2 In the event that you do make payments to SANRAL, we will claim the money back on your behalf by way of a class action suit once the E-Toll Act has been declared unconstitutional.
4. In the meantime we also provide the following advice:
4.1 Remember that e-tags are not legally required. No one can force you to use an e-tag.
4.2 Any law enforcement official that stops you and asks you to show an e-tag acts in breach of the law. Take the official's name and report this to us at [email protected].
We will talk again in the new year. In the meantime drive safely and be patient towards other drivers.
I wish you and your loved ones a very blessed Christmas.
Blessings
Adv. Anton Alberts
FF+
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Found on Facebook...
View attachment 89115
On the left is my car. On the right is what SANRAL has charged me for on my account.... I have not been near the tolled roads since they were introduced. How is this even possible!?? I suggest everyone in Gauteng monitors their bill even if you don't drive on the toll roads!
View attachment 89115
On the left is my car. On the right is what SANRAL has charged me for on my account.... I have not been near the tolled roads since they were introduced. How is this even possible!?? I suggest everyone in Gauteng monitors their bill even if you don't drive on the toll roads!
MagicDude4Eva
Banned
Are the plates the same (the Sanral image does not look like it ends in GP but in M - or is my eyesight shot?). What does Sanral say and how did you get the image?
Guess you missed the part where the cars aren't even the same make or colour? But yes... the plates are different.
huh?
MagicDude4Eva
Banned
No I didn't. To an ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) system the car/color does not matter. What is more worrying is that the the ANPR is not good enough to discriminate the GP from the M on the plate. So you can assume that you will have even bigger issues with '8' vs 'B' or '2' vs 'Z' and so on (although sophisticated ANPRs should be able to pick this up with almost 95% accuracy).
Yoh! That's criminally negligent on their part!
Having probably racked up between R200 and R300 in gantry tolls since they went live this month, without a tag, I still haven't received anything in the mail. So I've posted them a paraphrased version of the "please send me an invoice via registered mail" letter. Let's see where this goes...
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
OMB
Mountain Man
already posted in another thread yesterday, alas it doesn't appear to be true unless SCAMRAL are lying again, they say that's one of 3 gantries that haven't been commissioned yet
Nothing these scoundrels spew can be trusted. They have coughed up so much propaganda that anything they say is questionable.
Got a text message today encouraging me to register. All sorts of guff in the message. And the killer was if I wanted to opt out of residing the messages I should reply with "stop".
I decided to register the number as spam seeing as their was zip legit in the message and I don't want to give credence or attention to the message. It was subsequently deleted.
No legitimate invoice, then it's spam.
MagicDude4Eva
Banned
I don't know the N12 or where this is, but can someone with local knowledge cross check the location of the tollgate with the ones published on Waze and government gazette (page7).
From JPSA:
Below is a media release with respect to the harassment of so-called e-toll “violators”.
JPSA MEDIA STATEMENT – FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
TO: ALL NEWS AND TRANSPORT EDITORS
DATE: THURSDAY 19 DECEMBER 2013
SUBJECT: ILLEGAL HARASSMENT OVER E-TOLL “VIOLATIONS” TO BE HALTED
As reported in the Star Newspaper of today, Traffic fines management company, Fines4U (Pty) Ltd has been inundated with emails and SMS messages from TMT Services (Pty) Ltd in their capacity as tender winners for running the SANRAL “Violations Processing Centre – (VPC)” since Friday the 13th of December. It was immediately apparent that TMT Services (Pty) Ltd had gleaned the personal particulars of Mrs Cornelia van Niekerk from a website called PayMyFines.co.za.
The Electronic Communications and Transactions (ECT) Act forbids the unauthorised use of personal electronic contact details belonging to any person and PayMyFines.co.za own terms and conditions expressly state that “We will not disclose personal information collected about you without your express consent thereto or through due legal process.”
Yesterday, Fines4U’s lawyers, Dewey Hertzberg Levy Inc. wrote to TMT Services to demand that they cease and desist with the unauthorised use of Mrs van Niekerk’s personal particulars or face court action and today received a reply from TMT Services’ lawyers giving an undertaking that TMT would indeed no longer use any of the personal information held by PayMyFines.co.za.
A further letter was sent to the lawyers for TMT Services today demanding that telephone calls from them are also ceased because they make similar use of the personal information provided to PayMyFines.co.za. In addition, the effect of these incessant phone calls are blocking her lines and making it impossible for her to do her work.
Fines4U is not the only victim of the abuses perpetrated by TMT Services, acting on behalf of SANRAL and scores of other members of the public, all of whom apparently also happen to be registered with PayMyFines.co.za have been complaining about being hounded.
“By stark contrast, those who are not registered with PayMyFines.co.za but have driven on the Gauteng e-toll roads have not heard a word from the VPC,” said JPSA’s Howard Dembovsky. “I know this because I am one of those who have driven on them and I have not paid – nor have my friends,” he continued.
JPSA advises that people who continue to be hounded by TMT Services should simply quote the undertaking given to Fines4U by TMT Services to cease abusing the personal information they hold since there is no logical reason why they should treat any person differently. If however the abuse continues, there is nothing to stop people banding together to institute a “class action” to have an interdict issued against TMT Services and JPSA will be happy to help the public facilitate this.
Both, TMT Services and SANRAL must stop acting like thugs, stick to the legislated requirements of sending invoices to people within 32 days after the expiry of the 7 day “grace period” and obey the laws they expect others to obey.
ENDS
Best Regards,
Howard Dembovsky
National Chairman - Justice Project South Africa (NPC)
Below is a media release with respect to the harassment of so-called e-toll “violators”.
JPSA MEDIA STATEMENT – FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
TO: ALL NEWS AND TRANSPORT EDITORS
DATE: THURSDAY 19 DECEMBER 2013
SUBJECT: ILLEGAL HARASSMENT OVER E-TOLL “VIOLATIONS” TO BE HALTED
As reported in the Star Newspaper of today, Traffic fines management company, Fines4U (Pty) Ltd has been inundated with emails and SMS messages from TMT Services (Pty) Ltd in their capacity as tender winners for running the SANRAL “Violations Processing Centre – (VPC)” since Friday the 13th of December. It was immediately apparent that TMT Services (Pty) Ltd had gleaned the personal particulars of Mrs Cornelia van Niekerk from a website called PayMyFines.co.za.
The Electronic Communications and Transactions (ECT) Act forbids the unauthorised use of personal electronic contact details belonging to any person and PayMyFines.co.za own terms and conditions expressly state that “We will not disclose personal information collected about you without your express consent thereto or through due legal process.”
Yesterday, Fines4U’s lawyers, Dewey Hertzberg Levy Inc. wrote to TMT Services to demand that they cease and desist with the unauthorised use of Mrs van Niekerk’s personal particulars or face court action and today received a reply from TMT Services’ lawyers giving an undertaking that TMT would indeed no longer use any of the personal information held by PayMyFines.co.za.
A further letter was sent to the lawyers for TMT Services today demanding that telephone calls from them are also ceased because they make similar use of the personal information provided to PayMyFines.co.za. In addition, the effect of these incessant phone calls are blocking her lines and making it impossible for her to do her work.
Fines4U is not the only victim of the abuses perpetrated by TMT Services, acting on behalf of SANRAL and scores of other members of the public, all of whom apparently also happen to be registered with PayMyFines.co.za have been complaining about being hounded.
“By stark contrast, those who are not registered with PayMyFines.co.za but have driven on the Gauteng e-toll roads have not heard a word from the VPC,” said JPSA’s Howard Dembovsky. “I know this because I am one of those who have driven on them and I have not paid – nor have my friends,” he continued.
JPSA advises that people who continue to be hounded by TMT Services should simply quote the undertaking given to Fines4U by TMT Services to cease abusing the personal information they hold since there is no logical reason why they should treat any person differently. If however the abuse continues, there is nothing to stop people banding together to institute a “class action” to have an interdict issued against TMT Services and JPSA will be happy to help the public facilitate this.
Both, TMT Services and SANRAL must stop acting like thugs, stick to the legislated requirements of sending invoices to people within 32 days after the expiry of the 7 day “grace period” and obey the laws they expect others to obey.
ENDS
Best Regards,
Howard Dembovsky
National Chairman - Justice Project South Africa (NPC)
MagicDude4Eva
Banned
^^^ So let me get this straight: How does TMT get access to customer data from PayMyFines? Also - aren't both owned by the same entity and if so why does the one send a legal notice to the other?
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