The Middle East Conflict Thread

BBSA said:
You ask so nicly and seeing thst this thread is a bit long I will explain it again to you:

Hamas attack Israel by firing thousand of rockets at Israeli citizens. Israel has the responsibility to protect their citizens.

Hamas is provoking Israeli in the hope that something like this will happen so they can get cheap propaganda.

I can not tell you what happened in this specific incident (and it is unreasonable to expect that I can) but Hamas must take responsibility.

The bottom line is that if Hamas is so concerned about the Palestinian citizens it must stop attacking Israel and incidents like this will not happen.
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Cant be compared to what Israel is carrying out at the moment! As daveza says below!

daveza said:
Israel will no doubt ' regret this unfortunate incident ' ( which killed almost twice the number of people that every single hamas rocket has killed in the last 8 years ) - but will add that ' there were rocket launchers nearby ' and besides ' they told everyone to go away a month ago '.

Let's see how close I am.
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timgaul said:
Hamas are terrorists, only a sick person would support such an organisation. :rolleyes:
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so anti-zionist = pro hamas???:confused:

BrandonH said:
Unfortunately thats the reality of war. There would be no need for these strikes if either hamas stops attacking israel or if hamas grows some balls and faces israel outside of the cities.
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cities? have you been to Gaza, have you seen how many people are crammed in there? There is no were for them to go!

nivek said:
speak to egypt
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why?
 
daveza said:
t's not looking good for the idf.
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On AJE the IDF spokeswoman claimed the schools were booby-trapped then a few minutes later on CNN she can't confirm anything and then when pressed said rockets were fired from/near the school.. so it's clear to me they don't know but will lie to save face.
 
Time to rethink war on terror.

Read it, don't read it - it makes an undeniable argument.


http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-01-05-time-to-rethink-war-on-terror

The trouble is that over the last seven years, the war on terror has been thoroughly discredited -- not only morally, but militarily and strategically.

By erasing any prospect of negotiation, the violence did not weaken extremists but emboldened them.

Israel may want to boost the moderate Fatah faction which governs the West Bank now. But Hamas's electoral rise was a direct result of the contempt the Israeli's showed them in the past.

Meanwhile, Israel has been busy implementing the very tenets of the war on terror that have served the US so badly, primarily that intractable political problems can be solved solely by military means with the aim of not simply bombing your enemies into submission, but eliminating them altogether and then creating resolution on your own terms from the rubble.

"What I think we need to do is to reach a situation in which we do not allow Hamas to govern," said vice-premier Haim Ramon. "That is the most important thing." Who he thinks should govern when Hamas has gone, and precisely what legitimacy they would have, does not seem to bother him. He does not want to change the government of Gaza, he wants to change the people.
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BBSA said:
It is not about proportionality. It is about a states responsibility to defend its citizens, whatever it takes!
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Exactly! Defend its citizens against what? Should the innocent woman and children also not have a right to safety/defence? How many people have lost there lives in the last 8 years? Its tit for tat, until the land issue is resolved to at least what the UN stated, this war will not end!
 
AvOk said:
Exactly! Defend its citizens against what? Should the innocent woman and children also not have a right to safety/defence? How many people have lost there lives in the last 8 years? Its tit for tat, until the land issue is resolved to at least what the UN stated, this war will not end!
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This is NOT tit for tat. This is a state defending it citizens against thousands of rockets.
 
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Keep up the good work Israel

AvOk said:
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=12965
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So they must spend their life in bunkers or pay a fortune for a missile/rocket/mortar countermeasure, and Hamarse can go unpunished :sick:

Keep up the good work Israel - sooner or later the terrorist Hamarse will learn that their ideology is getting them into deep ****.

From the same site:

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=79
Even Israeli President Shimon Peres, who typically sides with his fellow socialists from Europe, scolded the visitors for for playing a "double game with Israel."

"Not one of you would sit with your arms crossed in the face of missiles being fired at your country," Peres told the Europeans.
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daveza said:
Read it, don't read it - it makes an undeniable argument.


http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-01-05-time-to-rethink-war-on-terror
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Wow mg arguing appeasement. Surprise, surprise :o.

Nobody said it would be short and easy :rolleyes:


Aqua_lung said:
Well yes, and 'probably' had rockets fired from the school.
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http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32368_UN_School_Used_by_Terrorists_As_a_Weapons_Dump

A 2007 video of them launching mortars from a school

Gaza headmaster was Islamic Jihad "rocket-maker"


By day, Awad al-Qiq was a respected science teacher and headmaster at a United Nations school in the Gaza Strip. By night, Palestinian militants say, he built rockets for Islamic Jihad.
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But militant leaders allied to the enclave's ruling Hamas group hailed him as a martyr who led Islamic Jihad's "engineering unit" -- its bomb makers. They fired a salvo of improvised rockets into Israel in response to his death.

Qiq's body was wrapped in an Islamic Jihad flag at his funeral, pictorial posters in his honour still bedeck his family home this week, and a handwritten notice posted on the metal gate at the entrance to the school declared that Qiq, "the chief leader of the engineering unit", would now find "paradise".
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daveza said:
It may be ' defending its citizens ' but it's more and more looking like doing to others what was done to them.
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We have already discussed this :

Garyvdh said:
Israel is simply doing what a state is supposed to do. Never mind the elections, never mind the ratio or the proportion. I think they have been extremely tolerant. I would have retaliated after the FIRST citizen killed... they have waited a long time to do this... but I am glad they are doing it.

I wish South Africa would wake up and realize this... our citizens are being killed and murdered every day... and the state fails to act to protect them... they are failing miserably. :(
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Careful folks! Emotions make for stupid arguments. Keep em level headed please. Name calling just doesn't make for a great and fruitful debate...
 
assassin said:
Hey guys

Answer one question, do any of you actually believe that this action will stop HAMAS.

Look at what it is doing to innocent families, if there is one thing that i can gurantee it is that the children and families that have lost people during incursion will never forget.

Israel is making the enlistment of new HAMAS members very easy. Hell if they killed my family for wateva reason i would not be the same.

At the end of the day the Gazans (who are already fed up with the 18 month sanctions wil again have no body to turn to but HAMAS, cause nobody else is doing jacksh#t).
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From the highly respected president elect Barak Obama:
“If somebody was sending rockets into my house, where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that,” he told reporters in Sderot, a small city on the edge of Gaza that has been hit repeatedly by rocket fire. “And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.”
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/washington/29diplo.html?_r=1&em

This "action" has stopped Hezbooola for some time now, so I guess Israel will be aiming for the same in this case.
 
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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167283383&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Few Israelis and Arabs hold out the hope that Operation Cast Lead will actually lead to the elimination of Hamas, whose true leadership is in Damascus and whose Palestinian supporters easily number in the hundreds of thousands.

If Hamas' Gaza-based leadership and armed cadres can be significantly weakened and a blow struck against one of Iran's two Mediterranean bases, this operation will have to be considered a moderate success but not a decisive victory.
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Not even the Israelis believe this is anything nearing a solution.

So why.. ?
 
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