The Middle East Conflict Thread

[marine1]

It was an Israeli that fabricated it anyway...

ROFL more lies?

 

[marine1]

One misquote that even I found to be way out of line, made up by an Israeli...
I admit and appreciate Mephistos link.
I will also any others that he finds.

Misquote? More like a blatant lie.

 

[BBSA]

It was an Israeli that fabricated it anyway...

It is still a fabrication.... I think an apology would be appropriate.

 

[rwenzori]

ROFL more lies?

Maybe, maybe not. Israeli/USA counter-propaganda is quite capable of initiating their own lies, spreading disinformation and false denials.

 

[JK8]

Misquote? More like a blatant lie.

Lol learn from you idol why dont you...

A lie should be tried in a place where it will attract the attention of the world.
Ariel Sharon

 

[JK8]

It is still a fabrication.... I think an apology would be appropriate.

I think Ouze Merham should apologise.

 

[BBSA]

I stand by, "I am ignoring your posts which I may or may not find inconvenient as you have ignored mine, and I will do so until such a time as you stop ignoring my posts, seeing as you started the game of ignoring posts."

Well dream on, the Rafah Border Crossing is controlled by Egypt and hence making the whole Blockade argument null and void.

 

[nivek]

think half the problem is people believing everything they read

 

[BBSA]

I think Ouze Merham should apologise.

Was it not you who did the name calling?

 

[daveza]

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online


"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.


Sharon can in no way be called benign.


Seeing as we are doing quotes how about these -

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."--

Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

 

[Glock26]

JK8...you want a quote?
How about your own silly signature line, which you think proves your point and actually works against you.

Here are the facts:
""There is no such thing as a Palestinian people." - Golda Meir

The statement has been a source of ridicule and derision by Arab propagandists ever since. They love to talk about Golda Meir's "racism." They love to suggest she was in historical denial. They love to say her statement is patently false – an intentional lie, a strategic deception.

What they don't like to talk about, however, are the very similar statements made by Yasser Arafat and his inner circle of political leadership years after Meir had told the truth – that there is no distinct Palestinian cultural or national identity.

So, despite the fact that conventional wisdom has now proclaimed that there is such a thing as the Palestinian people, I'm going to raise those uncomfortable quotations made by Arafat and his henchmen when their public-relations guard was down.

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.


For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

..on the same day Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, he explained his actions on Jordan TV. Here's what he said: "Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."

In the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as Palestine was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland. It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.

Golda Meir was right. Her statement is validated by the truth of history and by the candid, but not widely circulated, pronouncements of Arafat and his lieutenants.

G26

 

[Xarog]

Well dream on, the Rafah Border Crossing is controlled by Egypt and hence making the whole Blockade argument null and void.

All of which has nothing to do with the other posts of mine that you ignored. You object to your own behaviour when that behaviour is reflected back to you. You are a hypocrite. QED.

 

[marine1]

Hah brilliant, is anything he says true?

 

[rwenzori]

Well dream on, the Rafah Border Crossing is controlled by Egypt and hence making the whole Blockade argument null and void.

And how do you reason that?

Have you not read the numerous posts in this thread about this? Is Egypt, well-paid by the USA, supposed to take responsibility for those in Gaza, who have had their money, food, water access, medical treatment, fuel etc withheld by Israel, who occupies the land rightfully belonging to the people of Gaza?

 

[CyraxHB]

Yeah, in other words you ignore anything you find inconvenient.

Like you have been doing all along whenever someone quotes something from CNN etc.

Indeed. But I made absolutely no reference to the number of people that refused to fight.

You're still the one that brought the topic up.

And again, it's Illegal under international law.

And round and round we go. Ive already given my response to this.

No, actually I am saying they were entirely uninvolved in the war except as innocent bystanders.

It doesnt change the fact that they supported one side and are firing thousands of rockets at israel

Yes, it's amazing how easily a country is toppled after one war followed by 10 years of straight bombing.

As far as I know they were only bombed on 2 or 3 occassions in the 10 years preceding the 2003 war. There was no significant damage in those bombings that would cause their army to no longer be able to fight.

No, I'm saying the US has declared NK to be a rogue nation and NK has admitted to having a nuclear weapons program. And yet the US talks about diplomacy. They invaded Iraq, they threatened to invade Iran. Where's the threats against NK?

Im not sure what you are talking about here but it seems you are criticizing the US for not invading NK. I though you were against war.

And I'll take this response as proof that you're a troll.

So you cant prove the US is bankrupt to you choose rather to insult me. That seems to be quite common in the liberal camp on this forum.

The world recovered from the great depression which was much worse that todays situation. You're quite the pessimist, arent you.

 

[JK8]

Crazy...
Ill leave the link for you to read...
http://www.newsnet14.com/2003/12/benjamin-franklin-on-jews/

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

"I would have joined a terrorist organization." -- Ehud Barak's ... most if not all of these "quotes" have been proven to be false". ...

... http://politicalfever.org/internati...-prime-ministers-about-palestinian-arabs.html

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

...

Did Ben-Gurion actually say this? Not quite. The above quote is supposedly from ....

... http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=21&x_article=1446

can we stop the propaganda game now and debate ..... or is it thread closure time?

 

[nivek]

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online


"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.


Sharon can in no way be called benign.


Seeing as we are doing quotes how about these -

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."--

Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

Thus, for example, it is not hard to deconstruct Walt and Mearsheimer's use of an alleged statement by the former Israeli Foreign Minister and Defense Minister Moshe Dayan. Predictably, they simply accept as true Arab claims that Israel destroyed 531 Palestinian villages, and try to enlist Dayan in support of the charge:

Former Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan captures the catastrophe that the Jews inflicted on the Palestinians to create the state of Israel: "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you, because geography books no longer exist, not only the books do not exist, the Arab villages are not there either ... There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." (book, p 96)
Did Dayan really say this? Again, not quite, since the key sentence that reverses the meaning of the quotation is omitted, both by Walt and Mearsheimer, and by their very partisan source for this quote, Walid Khalidi.

The passage is from an address Dayan gave to Technion students on March 19, 1969 (the Technion is more or less Israel's MIT). A transcript of the speech appeared in Ha'aretz on April 4, 1969. In answer to a student's question suggesting that Israel deport to Jordan Palestinian attackers from the West Bank, Dayan answers that he is vehemently opposed to this idea, insisting that Arabs have roots in the land just like Jews, and that the two peoples must learn to live together. He goes on to say:

We came to a region of land that was inhabited by Arabs, and we set up a Jewish state. In a considerable number of places, we purchased the land from Arabs and set up Jewish villages where there had once been Arab villages. You don't even know the names [of the previous Arab villages] and I don't blame you, because those geography books aren't around anymore. Not only the books, the villages aren't around. Nahalal was established in the place of Mahalul, and Gvat was established in the place of Jibta, Sarid in the place of Huneifis and Kfar Yehoshua in the place of Tel Shaman. There isn't any place that was established in an area where there had not at one time been an Arab settlement. (emphasis added)

http://www.think-israel.org/safian.waltmearsheimer.html

Not only is your quote out of context, its quoting the completely wrong person? lol

 

[JK8]

JK8...you want a quote?
How about your own silly signature line, which you think proves your point and actually works against you.

Here are the facts:
""There is no such thing as a Palestinian people." - Golda Meir





In the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as Palestine was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland. It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.

Golda Meir was right. Her statement is validated by the truth of history and by the candid, but not widely circulated, pronouncements of Arafat and his lieutenants.

G26

Thats false, I sense if there was a link a blue and white flag will blowing in the wind on the top right hand corner...

 

[marine1]

Crazy...
Ill leave the link for you to read...
http://www.newsnet14.com/2003/12/benjamin-franklin-on-jews/

Wow you are really trying hard to restore credibility. aint gonna happen.