The Middle East Conflict Thread

[Necuno]

and on the air is frankie from garsfontein....702

...for a sec i thought it was frankie, but then i saw PE

 

[alloytoo]

OK then , what words would you use to describe the forced removal of somewhere between 400,000 and 1 million Palestinians from their land that the Israelis/Zionists then took?

Lie.

Forced removal - A flegling IDF defending Israel from 6 armies takes time out to indulge in the forced removal of troublesome Arabs.

On the face of it a fail, also somewhat discredited by a) OMG Israelies of Arab descent, and b) admission by arab leaders that advising the palestinians to flee pending the destruction of the Israel was if not premature, a huge mistake.

Incidently if this was an ethic cleansing exercise how come the palestinian numbers have increased more than fourfold since 1948?

 

[semiautomatix]

Wow, i am appalled.

You guys must really have and emotional black hole. SA condeming the loss of life in Gaza and you look at their past decisions.

Very interesting SA can draw parallels with Gaza and hence are probably the best people to comment.

Guys your replies show a lack of caring for human life. Wonder if you would feel the same if it were you and ur family.

Yup its not like we have thousands of people dying in our back yard... oh wait. Maybe SA should be a little more focussed on regional problems than the Middle East, don't you think?

 

[rwenzori]

Lie.

Forced removal - A flegling IDF defending Israel from 6 armies takes time out to indulge in the forced removal of troublesome Arabs.

On the face of it a fail, also somewhat discredited by a) OMG Israelies of Arab descent, and b) admission by arab leaders that advising the palestinians to flee pending the destruction of the Israel was if not premature, a huge mistake.

Incidently if this was an ethic cleansing exercise how come the palestinian numbers have increased more than fourfold since 1948?

LOL! You can deny away, and fool yourself - many people do that. Here is some factual history from Benny Morris, professor of history at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel. He is quite happy with this, BTW, not condemnatory at all, but not in De Nile like you!

"Yes. One of the revelations in the book is that on October 31, 1948,
the commander of the Northern Front, Moshe Carmel, issued an order in
writing to his units to expedite the removal of the Arab population.
Carmel took this action immediately after a visit by Ben-Gurion to the
Northern Command in Nazareth. There is no doubt in my mind that this
order originated with Ben-Gurion. Just as the expulsion order for the
city of Lod, which was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, was issued immediately
after Ben-Gurion visited the headquarters of Operation Dani [July
1948]."

Are you saying that Ben-Gurion was personally responsible for a
deliberate and systematic policy of mass expulsion?

"From April 1948, Ben-Gurion is projecting a message of transfer. There
is no explicit order of his in writing, there is no orderly
comprehensive policy, but there is an atmosphere of [population]
transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership
understands that this is the idea. The officer corps understands what is
required of them. Under Ben-Gurion, a consensus of transfer is created."

Ben-Gurion was a "transferist"?

"Of course. Ben-Gurion was a transferist. He understood that there could
be no Jewish state with a large and hostile Arab minority in its midst.
There would be no such state. It would not be able to exist."

I don't hear you condemning him.

"Ben-Gurion was right. If he had not done what he did, a state would not
have come into being. That has to be clear. It is impossible to evade
it. Without the uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state would not
have arisen here."

http://www.16beavergroup.org/mtarchive/archives/000729.php

 

[alloytoo]

If they had got rid of ALL of them, their actual intentions would have been obvious and they would have been condemned - they need some to make it look kosher ( LOL! ) so that they can make points like yours. Think token-black.

Think Epic FAIL.

 

[alloytoo]

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for, but surely you cannot claim that Israel has never "destroyed" anything or anyone Palestinian?

Neither can you claim the state goal and purpose of Israel is the destruction of Palestinian Arabs

 

[rwenzori]

Neither can you claim the state goal and purpose of Israel is the destruction of Palestinian Arabs

I certainly didn't. But one does wonder sometimes...... just kidding - I don't think it is LOL!

 

[semiautomatix]

Neither can you claim the state goal and purpose of Israel is the destruction of Palestinian Arabs

Yup, its the destruction of Hamas and the setting up of a Palestinian Authority with whom they can negotiate and find a peaceful solution for the future.

Perhaps then Israel will continue its funding of a Palestinian state.

 

[BTTB]

Failing to take sides in the Gaza conflict as I am a bit bewildered as to who is in the wrong here?

What I can is this.
Hamas fires rockets at Israel with no guidance systems (6000 apparently) whereas Israel fires their targeted ordinances at Hamas.
Both sides are in the wrong for firing munitions at each other.

Now without taking sides in the conflict I ask this question. What weapons are better in a built up area. Guided or unguided?
And who fired first?
I think the answer is pretty obvious, but obviously Hamas does not have the resources to acquire guided missiles and fighter aircraft. Why is it that Hamas does not have a conventional army? Are they not in control of the Gaza Strip and the legitimately elected Government and if they are why have they not got an army as such. At least people with uniforms.
People running around with turbans on their heads and firing rockets that can travel over 40kms onto unknown targets is hardly an army. Which leads me to believe that these people that are firing the rockets are a minority group and are just stirring the pot for whatever reasons they may have.

A few years back in Cape Town we had numerous Bomb Blasts in Public places killing innocent people. Remember Planet Hollywood?
And what did these perpetrators achieve? Once they were caught, I think it was less than 6 people, the bombing stopped and we have not heard a thing about it since.
Always a lot of noise and trouble coming from a small minority of people. Take those people out of the equation and you will be amazed how quickly the situation changes.

 

[semiautomatix]

Failing to take sides in the Gaza conflict as I am a bit bewildered as to who is in the wrong here?

What I can is this.
Hamas fires rockets at Israel with no guidance systems (6000 apparently) whereas Israel fires their targeted ordinances at Hamas.
Both sides are in the wrong for firing munitions at each other.

Now without taking sides in the conflict I ask this question. What weapons are better in a built up area. Guided or unguided?
And who fired first?
I think the answer is pretty obvious, but obviously Hamas does not have the resources to acquire guided missiles and fighter aircraft. Why is it that Hamas does not have a conventional army? Are they not in control of the Gaza Strip and the legitimately elected Government and if they are why have they not got an army as such. At least people with uniforms.
People running around with turbans on their heads and firing rockets that can travel over 40kms onto unknown targets is hardly an army. Which leads me to believe that these people that are firing the rockets are a minority group and are just stirring the pot for whatever reasons they may have.

A few years back in Cape Town we had numerous Bomb Blasts in Public places killing innocent people. Remember Planet Hollywood?
And what did these perpetrators achieve? Once they were caught, I think it was less than 6 people, the bombing stopped and we have not heard a thing about it since.
Always a lot of noise and trouble coming from a small minority of people. Take those people out of the equation and you will be amazed how quickly the situation changes.

I believe that is the intention... :/

 

[rwenzori]

Yup, its the destruction of Hamas and the setting up of a Palestinian Authority with whom they can negotiate and find a peaceful solution for the future.

Perhaps then Israel will continue its funding of a Palestinian state.

For every one you kill, two more will be created. The use of violence against militants might in this case result in the end of Hamas, but only so as to form an even more militant group. Hamas is a product of Israel's past actions, in this manner.

 

[marine1]

You are forgetting a major issue here, Hams are the ones doing this and who voted them in? The majority so I don't agree it is the minority committing these acts of terror. It is the majority, otherwise how did Ham A$$ get into power?

Failing to take sides in the Gaza conflict as I am a bit bewildered as to who is in the wrong here?

What I can is this.
Hamas fires rockets at Israel with no guidance systems (6000 apparently) whereas Israel fires their targeted ordinances at Hamas.
Both sides are in the wrong for firing munitions at each other.

Now without taking sides in the conflict I ask this question. What weapons are better in a built up area. Guided or unguided?
And who fired first?
I think the answer is pretty obvious, but obviously Hamas does not have the resources to acquire guided missiles and fighter aircraft. Why is it that Hamas does not have a conventional army? Are they not in control of the Gaza Strip and the legitimately elected Government and if they are why have they not got an army as such. At least people with uniforms.
People running around with turbans on their heads and firing rockets that can travel over 40kms onto unknown targets is hardly an army. Which leads me to believe that these people that are firing the rockets are a minority group and are just stirring the pot for whatever reasons they may have.

A few years back in Cape Town we had numerous Bomb Blasts in Public places killing innocent people. Remember Planet Hollywood?
And what did these perpetrators achieve? Once they were caught, I think it was less than 6 people, the bombing stopped and we have not heard a thing about it since.
Always a lot of noise and trouble coming from a small minority of people. Take those people out of the equation and you will be amazed how quickly the situation changes.

 

[rwenzori]

Failing to take sides in the Gaza conflict as I am a bit bewildered as to who is in the wrong here?

I don't agree with your conclusion, but BOTH SIDES are wrong, which is why the situation is such a bloody ( in both senses ) mess.

 

[rwenzori]

It is the majority, otherwise how did Ham A$$ get into power?

"Ham A$$" got into power by the will of a people tired of being increasingly oppressed by A$$rael.

 

[marine1]

And so the people of that area are now responsible for the situation they now find themselves in. So they deserve what they get

 

[d0b33]

And so the people of that area are now responsible for the situation they now find themselves in. So they deserve what they get

But you forget to mention the Israel funded Hamas to counter the PLO.

 

[sox63]

And so the people of that area are now responsible for the situation they now find themselves in. So they deserve what they get

By that same token the Israeli people deserve the terrorist attacks due to the behaviour of their goverment?

 

[rwenzori]

And so the people of that area are now responsible for the situation they now find themselves in. So they deserve what they get

In a sense, yes - on both sides. You can either leave it there and let them shoot the **** out of each other, or try to probe and consider ways out of the mess.

 

[marine1]

But you forget to mention the Israel funded Hamas to counter the PLO.

Are we going to go down that route again? Were you not embarrassed enough last tie when you were shown to be clearly misleading about the facts of that?

 

[marine1]

In a sense, yes - on both sides. You can either leave it there and let them shoot the **** out of each other, or try to probe and consider ways out of the mess.

When you are dealing with animals who want to destroy the Israeli's how can there be any solution other than war?